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  #1101  
Old 25.01.2015, 00:30
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Ukraine has to rely on only themselves.
Only on themselves, Ukraine couldn't send a bullet. They need help from outside and they get help from outside. You might agree with this help from outside and I don't mind at all that your agree with this help from outside, but it is still help from outside.
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  #1102  
Old 25.01.2015, 01:29
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Only on themselves, Ukraine couldn't send a bullet. They need help from outside and they get help from outside. You might agree with this help from outside and I don't mind at all that your agree with this help from outside, but it is still help from outside.
I meant in terms of weapons and troops. Despite columns of tanks/troops streaming over the RUssian border, the US/EU hasn't given Ukraine anything except some blankets and binoculars.

-----

OSCE confirms GRAD attack on Mariupol today killing over 30 civilians and wounding 100 came from Russian-backed "DPR":

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The SMM conducted a crater analysis and its initial assessment showed that the impacts were caused by Grad and Uragan rockets. According to the impact analysis, the Grad rockets originated from a north-easterly direction, in the area of Oktyabr (19 km north-east of Olimpiiska Street), and the Uragan rockets from an easterly direction, in the area of Zaichenko (15 km east of Olimpiiska Street), both controlled by the “Donetsk People’s Republic” (“DPR”).
http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/136061

"DNR" leader also confirmed the attack:
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"Today an offensive was launched on Mariupol. This will be the best possible monument to all our dead," RIA quoted rebel leader Alexander Zakharchenko as saying at a memorial ceremony in the rebel-held city of Donetsk.
The strike was in the center of the city, no apparent military target:

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One shell landed near an open-air market, killing a family and on one street alone 33 were reported wounded.

“They shot at the very center of the residential neighborhood, leaving many houses damaged,” Mariupol Mayor Yuriy Khotlubey said in a telephone statement televised by Ukrainian TV channel 112.ua.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-...ire-1422100691
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  #1103  
Old 25.01.2015, 01:54
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I meant in terms of weapons and troops (...) the US/EU hasn't given Ukraine anything except some blankets and binoculars.
You seriously think that the present ukrainian regime's policy is not financed from abroad? Just checking...
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  #1104  
Old 25.01.2015, 02:33
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Gorbachev is blaming "some Germans" in Der Spiegel and threatening with an escalation to a nuclear war.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...50109?irpc=932
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  #1105  
Old 25.01.2015, 03:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The Donetsk airport one year ago and now.

The Russians not surprisingly really work with the only too well known recipe of Stragegie der verbrannten Erde . The airport building was destroyed on intent. BUT such a building is replaced within a year, and the same applies to ruined runways


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This is completely crazy what is happening now -- the govenment is supposed to negotiate and try to save people. I hope that those responsible will answer for this.

WHAT to negotiate about ? THIS is the question
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  #1106  
Old 25.01.2015, 03:45
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Only on themselves, Ukraine couldn't send a bullet. They need help from outside and they get help from outside. You might agree with this help from outside and I don't mind at all that your agree with this help from outside, but it is still help from outside.



The Ukrainian Army is the part of the Soviet Army which was in the Ukrainian Soviet Republic. To say that the remnants of the USSR army could not send a bullet is a rather bizarre statement. Yes, Putin is right in stating that Russia could overrun the Ukraine in a week. Exactly this is why President Poroshenko is upgrading the Ukrainian army. What he needs is not weapons and bullets but the money to finance the expanded army.


in his speech in Zürich, President Poroshenko urged the West to support Russia and to stop boycotting it as only a strong Russia is in a position to yield and to make compromises, he also made it clear that Russia in the longer run is also to join the EU. These two things were the most interesting parts of his speech
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  #1107  
Old 25.01.2015, 03:53
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Gorbachev is blaming "some Germans" in Der Spiegel and threatening with an escalation to a nuclear war.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...50109?irpc=932


NO NO NO he is NOT threatening with an escalation to a nuclear war, but he is VERY concerned that the current tensions could lead to such an escalation
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  #1108  
Old 25.01.2015, 10:28
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Europe doesn't want a war at all, so the only likely side to push any buttons is the bandit state.
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  #1109  
Old 25.01.2015, 10:33
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Rebel leader Alexander Zakharchenko said yesterday that he had withdrawn from all peace talks with pro-western leaders in Kiev.
Today he said his forces had launched “an offensive against Mariupol”.

A strategic highway that links rebel-held regions to the east and the Black Sea peninsula of Crimea runs through Mariupol.

I assume Putin has finally accepted he will not be able to keep Crimea supplied with food and energy through the Winter by sea and is going for the land bridge option.

Looks like another half a million refugees and God knows how many dead.

I do not know why Poroshenko does not blow the bridges along the highway so that route would no longer be a viable option; at least for some time?

Possibly he is hoping that if Russia supports this assault in a big way (which is the only possibility to make a success of the venture) then the West will be drawn into defending Ukraine militarily? I hope not

Politicians on both sides playing games where the stakes are other people's lives?
The Donetsk defence department representetaives claim that they didn't launch any offensive against Mariupol. They call this provocation.They also claim that they are not planning to attack Mariupol at the moment. The DPR leader said that “in the last few days the Ukrainian side had relocated a large grouping of its troops to Mariupol.”.
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  #1110  
Old 25.01.2015, 11:12
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Europe doesn't want a war at all, so the only likely side to push any buttons is the bandit state.
If you compare the news coverage of the Ukrainian war in US/EU and in Russia, you would see that the Russian media shows the suffering of the Ukrainian people in a very explicit and detailed way. Injured people in the hospitals without legs and hands are being inteviewed, dead children shown, torn bodies, refugees, destroyed cities -- every day the Russian population is exposed to these horrors of Ukrainian war by the Russian media. But what do you see here? Almost nothing. Maybe theoretically Europe doesn't want war, but in reality people have no idea what is going on and how urgently this war must be stopped.
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  #1111  
Old 25.01.2015, 14:56
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The Donetsk defence department representetaives claim that they didn't launch any offensive against Mariupol. They call this provocation.They also claim that they are not planning to attack Mariupol at the moment. The DPR leader said that “in the last few days the Ukrainian side had relocated a large grouping of its troops to Mariupol.”.

The Ukrainians believe that SOMEBODY did or is to attack Mariupol, this is why they relocate forces to that place. The culprit therefore is Russia or Turkey or Saudi Arabia .......
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  #1112  
Old 25.01.2015, 14:57
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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If you compare the news coverage of the Ukrainian war in US/EU and in Russia, you would see that the Russian media shows the suffering of the Ukrainian people in a very explicit and detailed way. Injured people in the hospitals without legs and hands are being inteviewed, dead children shown, torn bodies, refugees, destroyed cities -- every day the Russian population is exposed to these horrors of Ukrainian war by the Russian media. But what do you see here? Almost nothing. Maybe theoretically Europe doesn't want war, but in reality people have no idea what is going on and how urgently this war must be stopped.

well, ask Mr Putin ....................
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  #1113  
Old 25.01.2015, 21:43
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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You seriously think that the present ukrainian regime's policy is not financed from abroad? Just checking...
The EU/IMF is bailing them out, yes, it's not a secret As for the Ukraine policy, yes, the EU supports Ukraine in maintaining law and order in the country, as well as protecting their borders against external aggression. Altho they don't do much to help them with that...

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The Donetsk defence department representetaives claim that they didn't launch any offensive against Mariupol. They call this provocation.They also claim that they are not planning to attack Mariupol at the moment. The DPR leader said that “in the last few days the Ukrainian side had relocated a large grouping of its troops to Mariupol.”.
It's pretty much the same as the MH17 incident, mountains of evidence against them, and they try to deny it

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If you compare the news coverage of the Ukrainian war in US/EU and in Russia, you would see that the Russian media shows the suffering of the Ukrainian people in a very explicit and detailed way. Injured people in the hospitals without legs and hands are being inteviewed, dead children shown, torn bodies, refugees, destroyed cities -- every day the Russian population is exposed to these horrors of Ukrainian war by the Russian media. But what do you see here? Almost nothing. Maybe theoretically Europe doesn't want war, but in reality people have no idea what is going on and how urgently this war must be stopped.
Russian media purposely shows graphic images, interviews "witnesses" who tell about "fascists" killing children, etc. in order to justify their invasion. Keep in mind there was no war before "Pro-Russian separatists" appeared. Russia starts the war, in order to justify sending their troops in to stop it. Putin is a "pyromaniac fireman" , as French U.N. Ambassador Gérard Araud said last August.

And indeed, The EU is ignoring it, they wish the problem would go away by itself so business can get back to normal: Germans selling BMW's to Russia, Russian tourists coming to Rome, Paris, etc. Nobody in EU wants to even think about war. However the further Russian tanks drive into Ukraine, the less chance there is for anyone to go back to "business as usual", and a "new normal" will emerge, which is not good for anyone The statement from Mogherini yesterday:

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Residential areas of the city of Mariupol have been fired upon today from separatist held territory, which has cost the lives of at least fifteen civilians, wounding many others and terrorising the innocent population. This comes after a series of indiscriminate attacks in the Donbas in the past few days, accompanied by the announcements of further offensives by Russia-backed separatists, who bluntly refuse to observe the cease fire.
This further escalation of the open armed conflict has tragic consequences for a population greatly suffering already for far too long. It would inevitably lead to a further grave deterioration of relations between the EU and Russia.
I call therefore openly upon Russia to use its considerable influence over separatist leaders and to stop any form of military, political or financial support.
This would prevent disastrous consequences for all. Those responsible for the escalation must stop their hostile actions and live up to their commitments.
http://eeas.europa.eu/statements-eea...0124_01_en.htm
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  #1114  
Old 25.01.2015, 21:44
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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If you compare the news coverage of the Ukrainian war in US/EU and in Russia, you would see that the Russian media shows the suffering of the Ukrainian people in a very explicit and detailed way. Injured people in the hospitals without legs and hands are being inteviewed, dead children shown, torn bodies, refugees, destroyed cities -- every day the Russian population is exposed to these horrors of Ukrainian war by the Russian media. But what do you see here? Almost nothing. Maybe theoretically Europe doesn't want war, but in reality people have no idea what is going on and how urgently this war must be stopped.

Actually it is the other way around - the bandit state funnels high-tech arms and soldiers, while US and Europe pretends there is no war.

OSCE, to which Russia belongs, made a statement which directly blames the "separatists" as the rockets were launched from territories in their control I wonder what Russian propaganda says. I'm pretty sure it is full of outright lies. Do they still show foreigners talking about whatever with a Russian translation which says something completely different?

Ah, UK unfroze investigation of Litvinienko murder - what a shame, the UK "justice".
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  #1115  
Old 25.01.2015, 22:01
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Rebel leader Alexander Zakharchenko said yesterday that he had withdrawn from all peace talks with pro-western leaders in Kiev.
Today he said his forces had launched “an offensive against Mariupol”.

A strategic highway that links rebel-held regions to the east and the Black Sea peninsula of Crimea runs through Mariupol.

I assume Putin has finally accepted he will not be able to keep Crimea supplied with food and energy through the Winter by sea and is going for the land bridge option.

Looks like another half a million refugees and God knows how many dead.

I do not know why Poroshenko does not blow the bridges along the highway so that route would no longer be a viable option; at least for some time?

Possibly he is hoping that if Russia supports this assault in a big way (which is the only possibility to make a success of the venture) then the West will be drawn into defending Ukraine militarily? I hope not

Politicians on both sides playing games where the stakes are other people's lives?
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The Donetsk defence department representetaives claim that they didn't launch any offensive against Mariupol. They call this provocation.They also claim that they are not planning to attack Mariupol at the moment. The DPR leader said that “in the last few days the Ukrainian side had relocated a large grouping of its troops to Mariupol.”.
So if Rebel leader Alexander Zakharchenko is not a Donetsk defence department representative then who is he?
Today Zakharchenko announced the battle for Mariupol is underway source http://engforum.pravda.ru/index.php?...d-at-mariopol/

I assume Pravda is not Western controlled??
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  #1116  
Old 25.01.2015, 23:47
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

The more I read the news, the more I feel Putin's Russia living in a parallel universe where up is down and black is white...

Jan.23, pro-Russian "DNR" leader announces an offensive (CNN/RIA):

Quote:
"There will be no attempts from our side to talk about the ceasefire," he said, reported Russian state news agency RIA. "We will be on the offensive until we reach the border of Donetsk region."
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/23/world/ukraine-crisis/

The same day Putin announces on TV that Kiev has planned an offensive ...altho no such statement ever came from Kiev (!!!)

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"The Kiev authorities have given an official order to start large-scale military operations practically throughout the whole line of contact.
Maybe Putin meant to say "DNR", but said "Kiev" by mistake? Or maybe, possibly, perhaps ....he is just simply lying and misleading everyone?

Considering that NATO has detected last week heavy movement on the Russian side of the border, it seems like an odd time for Kiev to launch a "large-scale military assault", on the contrary, they had been busy trying to defend the airport, which they wound up losing anyway...

Quote:
Breedlove said he could not confirm Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko's estimate of 9,000 Russian troops in eastern Ukraine.


"What we do see is that the Russian-backed forces have renewed capability now to bring pressure on the Ukrainian forces and have in several places moved the line of contact to the west and this is concerning," he said.


"We are beginning to see the (heat) signatures of air defense systems and electronic warfare systems that have accompanied past Russian troop movements into Ukraine," he said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0KV1EP20150122
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  #1117  
Old 26.01.2015, 00:12
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The more I read the news, the more I feel Putin's Russia living in a parallel universe where up is down and black is white...

Jan.23, pro-Russian "DNR" leader announces an offensive (CNN/RIA):


http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/23/world/ukraine-crisis/

The same day Putin announces on TV that Kiev has planned an offensive ...altho no such statement ever came from Kiev (!!!)



Maybe Putin meant to say "DNR", but said "Kiev" by mistake? Or maybe, possibly, perhaps ....he is just simply lying and misleading everyone?

Considering that NATO has detected last week heavy movement on the Russian side of the border




Putin spoke about Nazis in the Ukraine, reminding of the famous saying ----- seit heute morgen um 6 wird jetzt zurückgeschossen ----
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Old 26.01.2015, 00:45
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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If you compare the news coverage of the Ukrainian war in US/EU and in Russia, you would see that the Russian media shows the suffering of the Ukrainian people in a very explicit and detailed way. Injured people in the hospitals without legs and hands are being inteviewed, dead children shown, torn bodies, refugees, destroyed cities -- every day the Russian population is exposed to these horrors of Ukrainian war by the Russian media. But what do you see here? Almost nothing. Maybe theoretically Europe doesn't want war, but in reality people have no idea what is going on and how urgently this war must be stopped.
About "If you compare the news coverage of the Ukrainian war in US/EU and in Russia, you would see that the Russian media shows the suffering of the Ukrainian people in a very explicit and detailed way"

I assume Western media are not allowed into Russian controlled East Ukraine because they would see the place is full of Russian troops and Russian military hardware?
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Old 26.01.2015, 14:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

What news is fed to Russians about the Saturday rocket attack on Mariupol? (According to OSCE the rockets were launched from separatists controlled territories).

Russia's Komsomolskaya Pravda, a tabloid.
Who killed 20 people in Mariupol?
http://www.kp.ru/daily/26333.7/3216198/

In the opening section it states, that, read carefully:
"artillery fire" from the north-west side - a conclusion of the commission of the OSCE. And the newspaper concludes this is where Ukrainian forces are stationed.
The comments beneath the article are full of hate and completely one-sided.

On the true "truth" news paper website - http://pravda.ru I could not find anything specific describing the latest rocket attack but instead a short article about a planned tank attack by the Ukrainians dated yesterday, and a few day old article about DNR planned military offensive on Mariupol.
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Old 26.01.2015, 19:46
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

More bizarre statements from Putin today: He claims Ukraine is fighting the war with "foreign legions" of NATO fighters ....while the reality is 180° as Russian troops and mercenaries pour over the (no longer existent) Ukraine/Russian border....

Quote:
Putin told university students in St. Petersburg, "Essentially it is not the (Ukrainian) army at all but a foreign legion -- in this case, it is a foreign NATO legion,” whose main purpose is to "contain" Russia.
The reply from NATO:

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"The statement that there is a Nato legion in Ukraine is nonsense," Mr Stoltenberg said. "There is no Nato legion, the foreign forces in Ukraine are Russian."
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