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14.12.2021, 21:44
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| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | Ukraine is a de-facto member after the government stated that a nato membership is a strategic policy. At least that is how the Americans see things, even if it wernīt then American ties to Ukraine will be seen as encroachment by Moskau. | | | | | It is not for UA to declare. When Biden says that there will be no US troops directly involved, it is quite clear that UA is not a member state.
Any good movies on RT?
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14.12.2021, 21:49
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| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | It is not for UA to declare. When Biden says that there will be no US troops directly involved, it is quite clear that UA is not a member state.
Any good movies on RT? | | | | | On RT? Not that I know of.
Itīs always interesting trying to figure out what Politspeak means, what does "no US troops directly involved" does that mean indirectly or just supplying money and arms?
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14.12.2021, 21:52
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| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | On RT? Not that I know of.
Itīs always interesting trying to figure out what Politspeak means, what does "no US troops directly involved" does that mean indirectly or just supplying money and arms? | | | | | I mean, how can one seriously look at this mess and not conclude that the aggressor is Russia?
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15.12.2021, 07:05
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| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | I mean, how can one seriously look at this mess and not conclude that the aggressor is Russia? | | | | | Depends on whoīs side you look I suppose. Trying to keep an open mind here and I see your point, however Nato encroachment is real, despite promises not to. American weapons are getting closer to the Russian border and the Americans cancelled the open sky agreement as well as the treaty over the medium range missiles. Also the American neocons are really trying hard to make Russia into an enemy again.
Would that not make you nervous?
Then fighting in the Donbas region has been going on for almost ten years and I think we can agree that Russia is not going to give up access to the black sea. Frankly I think that they are getting fed up with America backing Ukraine and want to settle this once and for all.
__________________
Back in Bavaria, godīs own belly button.
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15.12.2021, 08:42
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| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | I mean, how can one seriously look at this mess and not conclude that the aggressor is Russia? | | | | | Of course it is, arguing otherwise makes one look like a fool at best and a Russian troll at worst. Not that is unheard or unseen of such a thing on EF....Look at their aggressive declarations in regards with NATO extension and the way they express themselves about countries that used to be under their dominance - arrogantly, dismissively, faking the narratives. If you only take the complete lack of diplomacy and tact here you can see who is the aggressor. Putin envisions himself as the next great Tzar and the soviet style acolytes in his entourage are encouraging him in his delusions. They want to provoke new divides in Europe, that is visible even from Mars.
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15.12.2021, 08:52
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| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | Page not found....? | | | | |
looks like they moved the page and removed a photo showing her https://www.infosperber.ch/politik/welt/__trashed-295/ | 
15.12.2021, 10:27
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| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | Ukraine is a de-facto member after the government stated that a nato membership is a strategic policy. At least that is how the Americans see things, even if it wernīt then American ties to Ukraine will be seen as encroachment by Moskau. | | | | | Surely, UA is an independent country and free to do whatever it wants to, Russia has no right to be interfering in the affairs of another sovereign country.
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15.12.2021, 11:42
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| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | Surely, UA is an independent country and free to do whatever it wants to, Russia has no right to be interfering in the affairs of another sovereign country. | | | | | With The Crimea and the Black Sea Fleet in the equation I find a parallel to the Danzig corridor situation at the beginning of WW2
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15.12.2021, 13:49
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| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | Surely, UA is an independent country and free to do whatever it wants to, Russia has no right to be interfering in the affairs of another sovereign country. | | | | | Neither do the US. The Nuland phone record shows that the US were actively and deeply involved in the overthrow of the democratically elected government, and had one installed they approve of.
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15.12.2021, 13:55
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| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | With The Crimea and the Black Sea Fleet in the equation I find a parallel to the Danzig corridor situation at the beginning of WW2 | | | | | Crimea is Ukrainian territory and Black Sea fleet must have been moved out long time ago. Another big mistake of Ukraine after giving away nuclear weapons was to let that Navi base in Sevastopol to stay for so long.
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15.12.2021, 13:57
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| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | Neither do the US. The Nuland phone record shows that the US were actively and deeply involved in the overthrow of the democratically elected government, and had one installed they approve of. | | | | | Yes but same did Russia in Ukraine with previous regime. And influencing governments is a bit different story than killing thousands of people in an open war and annexing the territory.
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15.12.2021, 21:18
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| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | Crimea is Ukrainian territory and Black Sea fleet must have been moved out long time ago. Another big mistake of Ukraine after giving away nuclear weapons was to let that Navi base in Sevastopol to stay for so long. | | | | | Nope, the black sea fleet is still going strong, in fact earlier this year they handed a British destroyer itīs ass.
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15.12.2021, 21:34
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| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | Yes but same did Russia in Ukraine with previous regime. And influencing governments is a bit different story than killing thousands of people in an open war and annexing the territory. | | | | | Working to overthrow a government is a bit different from influencing elections. Not that the US would accept even that for themselves, mind. Nor do they have any issues with invading countries and murdering hundreds of thousands while they create millions of fugitives others will have to bear, Syria isn't their last victim.
You start with basically saying that Russia is bad, too. That would be fair if you did that fully, without trying to shift blame, including by conceding that the US in no way shape or form the angel their propaganda machine tries to paint them as. Things are never 100% the same, but they can be likened.
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16.12.2021, 19:50
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| | Re: WWIII not again!
Meanwhile down at the Crewe Arms in the sleepy English village of Hinton-in-the-Hedges, somewhere in Oxfordshire
could villagers see a return of 'the 4 minute warning ? Hinton in the Hedges - 4 Minute Warning | 
16.12.2021, 20:57
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| | Re: WWIII not again!
If russia and china form an economic union - both are upset by USA and their unfair trade policies and imperialistic behaviour - they will be self sufficient, Russia has lots of resources (oil, gas, minerals) and China has lots of technology, labor force, big market - and both like to expand (Ukraine, Tawain). They just need to install their own payment system (no need for SWIFT).
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16.12.2021, 22:43
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| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | If russia and china form an economic union - both are upset by USA and their unfair trade policies and imperialistic behaviour - they will be self sufficient, Russia has lots of resources (oil, gas, minerals) and China has lots of technology, labor force, big market - and both like to expand (Ukraine, Tawain). They just need to install their own payment system (no need for SWIFT). | | | | | Thing is China and Russia hate each others guts, they would rather burn than create an alliance.
Having said that some cooperation seems to be going on, military and economically. I suppose itīs what happens when the US threatens and bullies grown up countries.
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16.12.2021, 23:56
| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | Crimea is Ukrainian territory | | | | | Ah glad that you agree that Kosovo is Serbian territory.
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17.12.2021, 09:52
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| | Re: WWIII not again!
Russia and China may hate each others' guts, but they could change this and my guess is they both together hate America more than the other, so on this basis, their shared hatred of America will bring them closer to achieve their goals
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17.12.2021, 10:05
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| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | Working to overthrow a government is a bit different from influencing elections. Not that the US would accept even that for themselves, mind. Nor do they have any issues with invading countries and murdering hundreds of thousands while they create millions of fugitives others will have to bear, Syria isn't their last victim.
You start with basically saying that Russia is bad, too. That would be fair if you did that fully, without trying to shift blame, including by conceding that the US in no way shape or form the angel their propaganda machine tries to paint them as. Things are never 100% the same, but they can be likened. | | | | | Well, I agree with you and I never said US is an angel. All of them (add here China, Turkey, India etc) do nasty things. However, does it indemnify them?
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17.12.2021, 12:14
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lummerland
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| | Re: WWIII not again! | Quote: | |  | | | Russia and China may hate each others' guts, but they could change this and my guess is they both together hate America more than the other, so on this basis, their shared hatred of America will bring them closer to achieve their goals | | | | | That is from an American point of view the worst case. Their own actions bringing two rivals together. I dont know, does anybody in Washington even think about the consequences of their actions.
Because a joint Russia-Chinese block could stoke American paranoia to a point where they do something very stupid.
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