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-   -   World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/202409-world-war-3-just-local-spat-ukraine.html)

marton 03.03.2014 19:13

World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Russia's Black Sea Fleet has told Ukrainian forces in Crimea to surrender by 3am or face a military assault.

One of the few time I agree with Merkel "Vladimir Putin has lost the plot, says German chancellor, Angela Merkel describes Russian president as 'out of touch with reality' after urging him to back down from Crimea occupation"

kngavl 03.03.2014 19:33

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

17:18: Interfax-Russia news agency is now quoting a spokesman for the Russian Black Sea Fleet denying reports about an ultimatum being issued to the Ukrainian troops in Crimea. "This is nonsense", a spokesman said. "We are getting used to daily reports accusing us of preparing to military action against our Ukrainian colleagues. We will not be pushed towards a head-on confrontation."
- BBC

Hell if anyone knows what is even happening now, not to mention what will happen tomorrow.

Slaphead 03.03.2014 19:38

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
This is point where I generally check a map to find out how far I'm away from whatever's brewing.

Not quite far enough is the answer this time.

awayaway 03.03.2014 19:40

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Given the fact that Britain and the US signed a treaty in 1994 pledging to protect Ukraine and all its borders in return for giving up nuclear weapons...seems like there could be a big problem ahead.

Phil_MCR 03.03.2014 19:44

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by awayaway (Post 2102587)
Given the fact that Britain and the US signed a treaty in 1994 pledging to protect Ukraine and all its borders in return for giving up nuclear weapons...seems like there could be a big problem ahead.

Yeah. Hopefully, we will not get to see how much those words are worth.

Reb77Br 03.03.2014 19:51

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Maybe they'll find a way to get Putin back to the negotiating table, then let him take Ukraine anyway.

idefix 03.03.2014 20:20

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Apparently most of the Ukraine's military in Crimea has switched sides and now are with the Russians.

I can't blame the Russians for wanting to protect Crimea and its majority of Russian citizen.

https://scontent-a-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/...72050822_n.jpg

What's funny is that modern Ukraine has territories that were never Ukrainian at all, so hard to keep it together as it seems.

http://i.imgur.com/gkRUNpe.jpg


Where as the West should honestly STFU as they seem to have very short memory

http://i.imgur.com/0IrmEYc.jpg

marton 03.03.2014 20:37

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by idefix (Post 2102639)
Apparently most of the Ukraine's military in Crimea has switched sides and now are with the Russians.

I can't blame the Russians for wanting to protect Crimea and its majority of Russian citizen.



What's funny is that modern Ukraine has territories that were never Ukrainian at all, so hard to keep it together as it seems.



Where as the West should honestly STFU as they seem to have very short memory



About "I can't blame the Russians for wanting to protect Crimea and its majority of Russian citizen. "

Protect from what exactly?
Ukraine has been independent (including Crimea) for nearly a quarter century.

Phil_MCR 03.03.2014 20:42

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2102664)
About "I can't blame the Russians for wanting to protect Crimea and its majority of Russian citizen. "

Protect from what exactly?
Ukraine has been independent (including Crimea) for nearly a quarter century.

I think he meant to say "I can't blame Russia for exploiting the current situation to extend its power and military footprint."

If they really wanted to protect Russian citizens, they could probably start with gay people and political dissidents on the mainland.

Tom1234 03.03.2014 20:57

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reb77Br (Post 2102601)
Maybe they'll find a way to get Putin back to the negotiating table, then let him take Ukraine anyway.

Like Hitler and Sudetenland you mean?

Faltrad 03.03.2014 21:02

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_MCR (Post 2102673)
I think he meant to say "I can't blame Russia for exploiting the current situation to extend its power and military footprint."
d.

That applies to the NATO in the exact same way. Humiliating Russia is in itself an understandable goal from an atlantist perspective, but one can't blame Russia for reacting to it. Try financing an antiamerican revolution in the Caribean area, you'll see what happens.... oh wait, That's Cuba. :D

Putin is putting himself in a strong position for whatever comes. Russians want to negociate with inferiors, same technics as the Americans. They all learn with the same books.

TiMow 03.03.2014 21:08

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by awayaway (Post 2102587)
Given the fact that Britain and the US signed a treaty in 1994 pledging to protect Ukraine and all its borders in return for giving up nuclear weapons...seems like there could be a big problem ahead.

Britain, once had a treaty with Poland, too, many years ago.

cannut 03.03.2014 21:16

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by awayaway (Post 2102587)
Given the fact that Britain and the US signed a treaty in 1994 pledging to protect Ukraine and all its borders in return for giving up nuclear weapons...seems like there could be a big problem ahead.



Yea right Hahahahaha:rolleyes:

Faltrad 03.03.2014 21:23

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2102664)
About "I can't blame the Russians for wanting to protect Crimea and its majority of Russian citizen. "

Protect from what exactly?
Ukraine has been independent (including Crimea) for nearly a quarter century.

Fundamental issue: Russian speaking population in Crimea are Russians, the other Russian speaking in Ukraine are Ukrainians who happen to speak russian. Citizenship and nationality are distinct in the ex-soviet area. Post soviet Russia accepted a very nice compromise with Kiev: Crimea is ukrenian, but with large autonomy as a region and kept distinction between Russians in Ukraine and Ukrainians speaking russian. Not all the same over there...

crazygringo 03.03.2014 21:26

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Americans are utterly exhaused after nearly 25 years of fake wars and chasing our tails in the desert and Africa. in other words, there will be absolutely zero US involvement in Ukraine's situation with Russia beyond the usual "talks" and "diplomacy". which is fine by me, we could use a couple of decades of isolationism, let Russia continue on the inevitable path it is already on.

marton 03.03.2014 21:38

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Faltrad (Post 2102708)
Fundamental issue: Russian speaking population in Crimea are Russians, the other Russian speaking in Ukraine are Ukrainians who happen to speak russian. Citizenship and nationality are distinct in the ex-soviet area. Post soviet Russia accepted a very nice compromise with Kiev: Crimea is ukrenian, but with large autonomy as a region and kept distinction between Russians in Ukraine and Ukrainians speaking russian. Not all the same over there...

Sure but I do not understand what changed? Why do the "Russians" in Crimea now need protection when it all worked OK for a quarter century?

cannut 03.03.2014 21:40

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
merkel should be more concerned about theme here :eek: https://libcom.org/news/neo-nazis-fa...raine-23012014

cannut 03.03.2014 21:43

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2102723)
Sure but I do not understand what changed? Why do the "Russians" in Crimea now need protection when it all worked OK for a quarter century?


Look at post #17:msnsarcastic:

marton 03.03.2014 21:45

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by idefix (Post 2102639)
Apparently most of the Ukraine's military in Crimea has switched sides and now are with the Russians.

I can't blame the Russians for wanting to protect Crimea and its majority of Russian citizen.



What's funny is that modern Ukraine has territories that were never Ukrainian at all, so hard to keep it together as it seems.


Where as the West should honestly STFU as they seem to have very short memory

http://i.imgur.com/0IrmEYc.jpg

I do not really understand the relevance of this cartoon? Ukraine had a successful "Arab Spring" type revolution which is now threatened by the Russian military marching in? Which of the other countries had anything similar? And what is the relevance of Pakistan? :)

cannut 03.03.2014 21:52

Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by idefix (Post 2102639)
Apparently most of the Ukraine's military in Crimea has switched sides and now are with the Russians.

I can't blame the Russians for wanting to protect Crimea and its majority of Russian citizen.

https://scontent-a-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/...72050822_n.jpg

What's funny is that modern Ukraine has territories that were never Ukrainian at all, so hard to keep it together as it seems.

http://i.imgur.com/gkRUNpe.jpg


Where as the West should honestly STFU as they seem to have very short memory

http://i.imgur.com/0IrmEYc.jpg


here pashosh groan this ,from your own news paper ;)http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.577114


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