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  #401  
Old 21.03.2014, 15:37
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

One thing does strike me. If you take a map, plot roughly 6 hours flying time from the last known position and then look for the spot most inaccessable to search and rescue it pretty much found it (if it is at that wreckage point).

Given where it was supposed to go I have trouble seeing that as pure coincidence.
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  #402  
Old 21.03.2014, 15:47
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

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...all anyone really knows is the plane is missing
We don't even know that for sure. WE don't know where it is...but somebody might.
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  #403  
Old 21.03.2014, 15:58
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

The Helios Airways 522 flight in 1997 experienced a pressurisation problem which lead to lack of oxygen in the cabin. The plane flew in "autopilot" till fuel starvation and crashed. Could be a similar scenario here.
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  #404  
Old 21.03.2014, 16:27
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

Question for the Aviation experts out here...

If they pilots were overcome with lack of oxygen, or fumes, is there no point at which autopilot will kick in?

If I don't touch my mouse or keyboard for 15 mins, windows locks my computer and puts a screensaver up, is there no provision for this in autopilot?

Also, if autopilot does take over and it 'sees' that comms are out etc etc (if it can see that) - how capable would it be of actually landing a plane?

Strikes me as a bit weird that a flight could potentially go for 5 hours with no input from pilots and not trigger some automatic warning system in the plane?
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  #405  
Old 21.03.2014, 16:32
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

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Question for the Aviation experts out here...

If they pilots were overcome with lack of oxygen, or fumes, is there no point at which autopilot will kick in?

If I don't touch my mouse or keyboard for 15 mins, windows locks my computer and puts a screensaver up, is there no provision for this in autopilot?

Also, if autopilot does take over and it 'sees' that comms are out etc etc (if it can see that) - how capable would it be of actually landing a plane?

Strikes me as a bit weird that a flight could potentially go for 5 hours with no input from pilots and not trigger some automatic warning system in the plane?
But the airline says that they found that the change of route had been programmed into the system BEFORE the last conversation with the pilot. That's why they highly doubt that the deviation is intentional.
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  #406  
Old 21.03.2014, 16:52
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

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But the airline says that they found that the change of route had been programmed into the system BEFORE the last conversation with the pilot. That's why they highly doubt that the deviation is intentional.
Er...I thought that's why they believe the deviation was intentional.
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Old 21.03.2014, 17:13
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

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Question for the Aviation experts out here...

If they pilots were overcome with lack of oxygen, or fumes, is there no point at which autopilot will kick in?
Depends entirely what the set up was. If the FMS was programed for the flight (which it must have been), then it would have flown to the last entered waypoint. In the case of MH370 there seems to have been this unexplained left turn shortly after the radio hand off from Malaysian to Vietnamese ATC which is why there's been all this random speculation.

As MrVertigo pointed out with the Helios 522 incident, the crew and pax were all unconscious as the Boeing flew a circuitous route on autopilot before succumbing to fuel starvation and therefore gravity.

If you have a spare week, head on over to pprune and try reading your way through over 7000 posts of informed comment, wild speculation and total BS about the Malaysian 777. You'll be none the wiser though. Probably.
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  #408  
Old 21.03.2014, 17:25
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

So it sounds like the Auto-Pilot can neither land, nor make a judgement call on fuel left so it can head towards the nearest airport then?

Seems a bit archaic, what can it actually do, just keep a plane level for a bit whilst the pilot goes for a $hit?
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  #409  
Old 21.03.2014, 17:35
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

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Depends entirely what the set up was. If the FMS was programed for the flight (which it must have been), then it would have flown to the last entered waypoint. In the case of MH370 there seems to have been this unexplained left turn shortly after the radio hand off from Malaysian to Vietnamese ATC which is why there's been all this random speculation.

As MrVertigo pointed out with the Helios 522 incident, the crew and pax were all unconscious as the Boeing flew a circuitous route on autopilot before succumbing to fuel starvation and therefore gravity.

If you have a spare week, head on over to pprune and try reading your way through over 7000 posts of informed comment, wild speculation and total BS about the Malaysian 777. You'll be none the wiser though. Probably.
As I posted earlier, I find it hard to believe the plane could fly all the way to Australia more or less in a straight line without someone (pilot or autopilot) tending to the controls. Surely it would be subject to external forces which would cause changes of direction and height. If the autopilot was set to the last entered waypoint then would it automatically circle there? or is that also configurable so it would just continue in the same direction if nobody released it?
Just my dumb two pennorth....
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Old 21.03.2014, 17:36
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

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So it sounds like the Auto-Pilot can neither land, nor make a judgement call on fuel left so it can head towards the nearest airport then?

Seems a bit archaic, what can it actually do, just keep a plane level for a bit whilst the pilot goes for a $hit?
I'm not an expert but landing can be done by a certain category of autopilot systems. Airport needs the right radars and radio equipment for that. Not sure though if all modern airplanes come equiped with it.
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  #411  
Old 21.03.2014, 17:40
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

Whenever I hear the word 'autopilot', I see that inflatable doll in a captain's uniform from Airplane.
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  #412  
Old 21.03.2014, 18:00
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

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I'm not an expert but landing can be done by a certain category of autopilot systems. Airport needs the right radars and radio equipment for that. Not sure though if all modern airplanes come equiped with it.
Surely they really should though. Planes are pretty expensive - my brief wikipedia check shows that on average, a 777 costs $300m (not to mention the compensation costs of passengers / crew being killed), so surely it would make sense to install something that could at least have a go at landing at the nearest suitable airport, rather than circling until it runs out of fuel, that makes zero sense to me at all.
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  #413  
Old 21.03.2014, 18:08
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

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Surely they really should though. Planes are pretty expensive - my brief wikipedia check shows that on average, a 777 costs $300m (not to mention the compensation costs of passengers / crew being killed), so surely it would make sense to install something that could at least have a go at landing at the nearest suitable airport, rather than circling until it runs out of fuel, that makes zero sense to me at all.
Luckily the company I work for isn't an airline but if it was and they had the option of paying $300m for the cutdown version or $301m for the fully featured can do everything version I know which one they would buy, and it wouldn't be the 'expensive' one.
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  #414  
Old 21.03.2014, 18:18
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

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Surely they really should though. Planes are pretty expensive - my brief wikipedia check shows that on average, a 777 costs $300m (not to mention the compensation costs of passengers / crew being killed), so surely it would make sense to install something that could at least have a go at landing at the nearest suitable airport, rather than circling until it runs out of fuel, that makes zero sense to me at all.
Advanced as they are, modern airplanes still require some human inputs. Things like cruising altitude, speed, and direction are all programmable. There are instrument-guided landings as well...but someone has to put in the data/flip the switch to tell the plane what to do next. Absent any further inputs a plane will just keep doing what it was last told to do (until it runs out of fuel). Also not all airports are equipped for instrument landing anyway. For example at the Bern airport apparently you can only use ILS from one direction, not the other.
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Old 21.03.2014, 18:31
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

Don't confuse "autopilot" with "autoland". Although the Brits were first with pure autolandings in their HS.121 Trident jets in the 1960s, airplanes don't, as such, land automatically after take off and cruise. They could, but the fact is that because of other airplanes and local Air Traffic Control centers they wouldn't be correctly sequenced. If there was one flight alone in the sky it could happen, but it doesn't. In poor weather (IFR, Instrument Flight Rules) or at major airports, flight crew will fly to the approach sector and then depending upon visibility or ATC instructions use the ILS to set the landing up.

Read up on ILS here.

There are three types of weather categories for landing, 1, 2 & 3 where 3 is also divided into a and b to subdivide exact RVR (runway visual range) visibility. Not all airliners or regional airplanes are cleared for Cat 3b which is the minimum visibility in which ILS approaches are flown.
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Old 21.03.2014, 19:42
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

Inflatable doll + used car dealership = totally confused!
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  #417  
Old 21.03.2014, 20:54
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

While It is interesting to read the far fetched theories on here this one is out there :

http://www.codewit.com/north-america...nL-ZJ0.twitter
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  #418  
Old 21.03.2014, 21:08
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

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While It is interesting to read the far fetched theories on here this one is out there :

http://www.codewit.com/north-america...nL-ZJ0.twitter
Sort of jibes with the aliens theory?
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  #419  
Old 21.03.2014, 21:23
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

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Only if it doesn't fill with water...............same as a ship.
Yep, serious.

I guess I envision the interior of a plane as being capable of filling with water and sinking, though of course I do realize that some smaller parts of the plane could float.
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  #420  
Old 21.03.2014, 21:46
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Re: Malaysian Airlines flight missing

It seems like cosmology might be in play in this mysterious disappearance:

CNN considers whether a black hole swallowed the missing Malaysian plane
http://mobile.theverge.com/2014/3/20...-lost-cnn-asks

Meanwhile 54 minutes of transcripts are being at focus.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...rom-MH370.html

Hey, somebody does not want to spill the beans what's really going on
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