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Old 25.03.2014, 17:05
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It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

This is not a troll post, and please don't scream "racism" or "discrimination" in this thread.

Now that's out the way, I think a serious conversation on what is happening across Europe with young and/or vulnerable people are being recruited by various means as jihadists for the war in Syria and wherever else the never ending Islam civil war is ongoing.

There are dedicated people out there looking for idealistic folk, who want to make a difference in this world to make it better. They are easier to convince than most that a very narrow and rigorostic view of Islam is the *only* path that can lead to making the world a better place. They work on them on social networks, or via friends, etc. They push the victim to become distant from their family friends and school/workplace, and indoctrinate them using the very efficient methods that most religious sects employ to totally manipulate them. Then they "offer" them a place in whatever war against the Enemy is current (that's Syria these days since it's easy to get to via Turkey). There, they will likely only become cannon fodder, or maybe they'll come back as recruiters or lone wolf sleeper cells. Do you want anyone in your surroundings and family to go down this path? It's happening all over Europe, the various security services are getting more and more alarmed about this.

Symptoms of this is a sudden change in behaviour and clothing, distancing themselves from their normal daily routine, and rapid conversion to an Islam they barely understand the depth of. They can't be reasoned with because they believe they know the one True Path and they've been brainwashed to despise any other way of living. The only way to prevent them leaving is not to plead with them but to say how much you love them, over and over again, and how worried you are about them. There are sites out there and even hotlines to ask for help in various countries (France, UK amongst othere, but not Switzerland as far as I know).

Don't know about you but I'm really concerned how much these convert numbers are growing.
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Old 25.03.2014, 17:08
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

...... and it's not even Friday.
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Old 25.03.2014, 17:08
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

@ Noth - can you please be more specific or is yours just a general rant?

Last edited by MidfieldGeneral; 25.03.2014 at 17:08. Reason: racist bullshit
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Old 25.03.2014, 17:14
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

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This is not a troll post, and please don't scream "racism" or "discrimination" in this thread.

Now that's out the way, I think a serious conversation on what is happening across Europe with young and/or vulnerable people are being recruited by various means as jihadists for the war in Syria and wherever else the never ending Islam civil war is ongoing.

There are dedicated people out there looking for idealistic folk, who want to make a difference in this world to make it better. They are easier to convince than most that a very narrow and rigorostic view of Islam is the *only* path that can lead to making the world a better place. They work on them on social networks, or via friends, etc. They push the victim to become distant from their family friends and school/workplace, and indoctrinate them using the very efficient methods that most religious sects employ to totally manipulate them. Then they "offer" them a place in whatever war against the Enemy is current (that's Syria these days since it's easy to get to via Turkey). There, they will likely only become cannon fodder, or maybe they'll come back as recruiters or lone wolf sleeper cells. Do you want anyone in your surroundings and family to go down this path? It's happening all over Europe, the various security services are getting more and more alarmed about this.

Symptoms of this is a sudden change in behaviour and clothing, distancing themselves from their normal daily routine, and rapid conversion to an Islam they barely understand the depth of. They can't be reasoned with because they believe they know the one True Path and they've been brainwashed to despise any other way of living. The only way to prevent them leaving is not to plead with them but to say how much you love them, over and over again, and how worried you are about them. There are sites out there and even hotlines to ask for help in various countries (France, UK amongst othere, but not Switzerland as far as I know).

Don't know about you but I'm really concerned how much these convert numbers are growing.
don't we do the same with our young naive soldiers? promise them a good life and then send them off to iraq or some other war zone to fight our wars for us?
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Old 25.03.2014, 17:24
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

@Noth: So, you've identified the problem as you see it, so what's the solution in your view?
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Old 25.03.2014, 17:24
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

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Symptoms of this is a sudden change in behaviour and clothing,
I always knew there was a more sinister side to Spiderman
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Old 25.03.2014, 17:25
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

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This is not a troll post, and please don't scream "racism" or "discrimination" in this thread.

Now that's out the way, I think a serious conversation .

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Old 25.03.2014, 17:25
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

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@Noth: So, you've identified the problem as you see it, so what's the solution in your view?
Solution?

Isn't this the EF?
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Old 25.03.2014, 17:27
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

Nope, it's really not
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Old 25.03.2014, 17:32
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

I have not heard of this menace in Switzerland, but it does happen in Britain.
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Old 25.03.2014, 17:34
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

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I have not heard of this menace in Switzerland, but it does happen in Britain.
Somebody recently started a thread about seeing tanks in Dübendorf.

I bet that was an Islamist invasion the media are hushing up.
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Old 25.03.2014, 17:40
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

@MidfieldGeneral: Yes I've got a few. How about the Lee Rigby killing last May? There's also the 15 year old teenagers from Toulouse who travelled to Turkey before they got picked up by the local police on their way to the Syrian border. There's this article (in French) on another case: http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/articl...8591_3224.html.

Solutions? Well for one thing not allowing preachers holding extreme views to be allowed into the country, not giving them any outlet on television (cf the BBC which has repeatedly allowed them to provide a "balanced" counterpoint), and checking on what exactly are your children doing online. And providing factual counterpoints that completely discredit the "One True Path" type discourses. None of this is going to be easy in democratic societies but I think the mollycuddling of "other cultures" needs to end before there are more innocent civilians killed over here, as opposed to a war zone.

I also object to putting jihadists on the same level as soldiers wearing a uniform and unders orders of a government. That kind of relativism is precisely playing into the hands of those who want to justify their violence as legitimate, which it clearly isn't.
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Old 25.03.2014, 17:44
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

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I have not heard of this menace in Switzerland, but it does happen in Britain.
It's happened here, a Jordanian kid who was going to school in Bienne went down that path and got to the Shebab in Somalia & Kenya. He was arrested by the Kenyans and is no longer allowed to set foot in Switzerland. http://www.24heures.ch/suisse/Le-gym...story/15515358

Here's another very recent case: Swiss national of Kosovan origin murdered three policemen in Turkey on the 20th of March: http://www.24heures.ch/monde/europe/...story/31634008.
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Old 25.03.2014, 17:46
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

You may object to "jihadists" as you call them being likened to uniformed soldiers but it's a highly subjective objection and not one that I'm confident you could defend. Young people following an ideal, an ideology and orders in order to cross borders and kill people they've never met. Islam isn't any more violent than Christianity, Hinduism or atheism. They're all just humans doing what humans do best.
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Old 25.03.2014, 17:46
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

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@MidfieldGeneral: Yes I've got a few. How about the Lee Rigby killing last May? There's also the 15 year old teenagers from Toulouse who travelled to Turkey before they got picked up by the local police on their way to the Syrian border. There's this article (in French) on another case: http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/articl...8591_3224.html.

Solutions? Well for one thing not allowing preachers holding extreme views to be allowed into the country, not giving them any outlet on television (cf the BBC which has repeatedly allowed them to provide a "balanced" counterpoint), and checking on what exactly are your children doing online. And providing factual counterpoints that completely discredit the "One True Path" type discourses. None of this is going to be easy in democratic societies but I think the mollycuddling of "other cultures" needs to end before there are more innocent civilians killed over here, as opposed to a war zone.

I also object to putting jihadists on the same level as soldiers wearing a uniform and unders orders of a government. That kind of relativism is precisely playing into the hands of those who want to justify their violence as legitimate, which it clearly isn't.
Maybe Islamists wouldn't hate us so much if we weren't so hell bent on supporting puppet governments in their countries and bombing the sh*t out of those who disagree.
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Old 25.03.2014, 17:49
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

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Islam isn't any more violent than Christianity, Hinduism or atheism.
ahem, they seem to have some involvement in most of the world's major conflicts right now.

This is a problem only Muslims themselves can sort out. For example by more moderate Muslims standing up and denouncing the extremists. That's something non-Mulsims can't reasonably do without coming across as anti-Muslim.
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Old 25.03.2014, 17:57
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

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@MidfieldGeneral: Yes I've got a few. How about the Lee Rigby killing last May? There's also the 15 year old teenagers from Toulouse who travelled to Turkey before they got picked up by the local police on their way to the Syrian border. There's this article (in French) on another case: http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/articl...8591_3224.html.

Solutions? Well for one thing not allowing preachers holding extreme views to be allowed into the country, not giving them any outlet on television (cf the BBC which has repeatedly allowed them to provide a "balanced" counterpoint), and checking on what exactly are your children doing online. And providing factual counterpoints that completely discredit the "One True Path" type discourses. None of this is going to be easy in democratic societies but I think the mollycuddling of "other cultures" needs to end before there are more innocent civilians killed over here, as opposed to a war zone.

I also object to putting jihadists on the same level as soldiers wearing a uniform and unders orders of a government. That kind of relativism is precisely playing into the hands of those who want to justify their violence as legitimate, which it clearly isn't.
There ARE such emigrants out of Switzerland, but it is NOT a "growing" number

Imams immigrating do not declare to hold extreme views -- and extremist Imams already ARE here

What are "jihadists" ? Generally guerilleros NOT belonging to a regular army. But everything depends on how a guerillero-army conducts its operations
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Old 25.03.2014, 18:00
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

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Imams immigrating do not declare to hold extreme views -- and extremist Imams already ARE here
One of the most extreme and dangerous imams influencing young people in Europe is actually a German convert, Pierre Vogel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Vogel
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Old 25.03.2014, 19:06
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

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This is not a troll post, and please don't scream "racism" or "discrimination" in this thread.

(...)
Symptoms of this is a sudden change in behaviour and clothing, distancing themselves from their normal daily routine, (...)
I noticed a lot of flouncing and rapid changes of avatars among some strange members of this very online community here. Where should I report the names?
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Old 25.03.2014, 19:29
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Re: It's time to have a conversation about the jihadi & islamist menace in our midst

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ahem, they seem to have some involvement in most of the world's major conflicts right now.

This is a problem only Muslims themselves can sort out. For example by more moderate Muslims standing up and denouncing the extremists. That's something non-Mulsims can't reasonably do without coming across as anti-Muslim.
They're really involved with fighting the West/Christianity, aren't they?
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