Unlike Russians, right?

Have you even GLANCED at the ICC statute, and understand which crimes it is foreseen to try?

Have you also checked which countries have signed the Statute (and those who have not)?

And do you actually UNDERSTAND what signing (or not) the Statute actually means?

Maybe it's time Russia stood up against NATO agression, indeed, before it's 1939 again?

US signed an agreement to respect borders of Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Serbia, you name it. And guess what.

and Crimea and East Ukraine ran into Russian's arms.

What precisely is your problem?

Do you have a link to these agreements?

Surely it was Russia who signed an agreement to respect borders of Afghanistan; Soviet-Afghan frontier agreement of 1325 Š./1946 and guess what!

yes, i do.

http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/

I think they lost their credibility as soon as they picked up guns and put on ski-masks. If they want change, use political dialog, peaceful protests, etc. There are many ways to make your voice heard. Picking up guns only leads to war.

Where in the UN charter does it state "US signed an agreement to respect borders of Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Serbia" ?

A very interesting presentation by the Russians.

No - it does not answer any questions.

But it does raise many new questions !

And the USA, if they really can identify which missile launcher fired the deadly shot, should present their evidence and stop trying to score brownie points !!

And the USA are not going to answer those questions or provide any evidence. The world should believe them blindly, because they never lie.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/20...50.htm#UKRAINE

If the Russians who live about 15Km from the action and have the whole area under intense military and radar control cannot provide any answers then how do you expect the USA who live half the world away to provide answers. Or do you sincerely believe the US technology is decades advanced versus the Russian? .

Ideally, we would like to a thorough investigation. We would like to see those responsible admit the truth, be held accountable.We would like to see the victims laid to rest honoured and remembered. And of course, we would like to see their loved ones receive compensation and closure,the airline exonerated.

Alas, in the short term, we will see little of these things. In the long term, Putin's successor may offer something, but until I fear there until the. will be little more remaining than memories, heartache and a lonely memorial in the corner of some foreign field.

__________________
So sayeth the 'Speed
* I do look like my avatar

Because I was referring to the question raised by the Russians that if the US claim they have satellite imagery of a launch of the missile responsible for the downing of the aircraft, they should show it to everyone as the Russians confirm that the US had a satellite covering the area.

[QUOTE=marton;2203203]

What exactly is the point of saying 'UN hands are tied'?

Yes, they are. So what exactly are you proposing?

Or just stating the obvious?

So the Russians confirmed that the US have better technology?
BTW, several airlines including Swiss have cancelled Israel flights today due to the risk of being shot down.

Luckily my pension does not run to long distance air tickets!

It does look like this incident, sad that it is, is fading away out of the headlines. It is not because the incident is no longer newsworthy, it is simply because the front pages are beginning to fill up with other, even worse atrocities. Ultimately, it [the MH17 incident] will at worst be presented as an accident in the "fog of war" (a targeting error or something like that). It is, of course, an outrage that a rogue group was able to lay its hands on such powerful weaponry and that so many civilians (c. 300) have died as a result. There is natural anger and indignation being directed at that rogue group's alleged sponsor.

Or, at least, the indignation and anger is natural when the alleged sponsor is Russia. When, however, it is America as the sponsor and Israel as the rogue client and recipient of the state of the art weapons technology used for killing upwards of 600 civilians in a recent incident, many of whom women and children, that is, it seems, perfectly alright. Peoples' patience readiness for listing to elaborate logic and explanations of why so many innocents must die seems to be infinite.

Well, it is the Gaza incident beginning to displace the MH17 incident from the headlines and it will be interesting to see at what point we reach a reporting equilibrium. It still seems at the moment that 300 civilian deaths connected to a Russia protegé is more "shocking" than 600 civilian deaths connected to an American protegé.

I gave you thanks for one of the more reasoned comments on this thread.

The real question is, regardless of why, do they have the right to join Russia or not?

If a legitimate president of a country is overthrown in a coup, the very president that was elected by the votes from that region, what should they expect?

Why would their votes count any less from the rest of Ukrainians?

It's easy to forget, but similar situation was in Bosnia, when 1/3 of population was completely ignored. The result was a horrible war, and status quo that is never resolved. But eventually the only solution will be for people to chose their own destiny. I am certain that Ukraine will follow the similar path.

I find it so ironic that Western propaganda calls Crimea joining Russia as 'annexation'. And Baltic states joining NATO is not annexation, but free will of people?

Same for FRG and DDR.

Soviet Union was dissolved and Baltic states followed suit and became independent. Yugoslavia was dissolved, and Bosnia became independent but Frankenstein state.

Why would east of Ukraine and Crimea have any less rights to secede than Baltic states had from the Soviet Union?

in Article 2, para 4:

'All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.'

Suppose you advocated the same dialogue before Yanukovich was overthrown?

Meanwhile, twitter of U.S. Department of State in Ukraine http://twitter.com/UkrProgress blames "terrorists" and locals for taking pictures with MH17 debris and turning the crash site into touristic attraction...



https://twitter.com/UkrProgress/stat...021696/photo/1

...and they claim to be more credible than Russia and never spread any propaganda.

But this does not say anything about specific agreements to respect the borders of the countries you listed.
the US acted in a manner consistent with the purposes of the United Nations and does respect the territorial integrity and political independence of the countries you listed; they have their own Govt and political independence.
Unlike Russia who stole a large part of Ukraine, changed the borders and politically made it part of the Russian federation so political independence is gone. Even though Russia signed agreements with Ukraine and the UN charter. They have even made the locals give up their Ukraine passports.

Any evidence from the US connecting Russia to the crash is still to come.
For now we get this:

"WASHINGTON (AP) -- Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday that Russia was responsible for "creating the conditions" that led to the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, but they offered no evidence of direct Russian government involvement.

The intelligence officials were cautious in their assessment, noting that while the Russians have been arming separatists in eastern Ukraine, the U.S. had no direct evidence that the missile used to shoot down the passenger jet came from Russia."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...07-22-17-22-10

The swiss TLV flight left as normal

Oh really? Tagesanzeiger tells a different story.
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wirtscha...story/14557900