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  #21  
Old 17.07.2014, 21:15
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Re: Malaysian airline come down over Ukraine

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Quite frankly it'll probably never be explained, at least in a conclusive manner. Speculative perhaps, but not conclusive.
I think it will be explained. That wreckage is out there and will be found at some point (if only through technology advances), but it may take some years.

This is a great example of an airplane crash that was a mystery for a very long time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_BS..._Dust_accident
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  #22  
Old 17.07.2014, 21:18
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Re: Malaysian airline come down over Ukraine

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Whatever you've read, nobody has any idea what downed MH370. If it's a systemic error with Malaysia Airlines, then that error is still there. I'm slicing a bit with Occam's Razor here to assume that it wasn't the 777 at fault, but that airplane has had a peerless safety record up to now.
Wrong.

A 777 fell short of the runway at Heathrow a few years back due to the engines suffering fuel starvation from a build up of ice crystals in the fuel. Nobody was injured, but that doesn't constitute a particularly safe way to land

A 777 crashed at SF international last year when it came in too low. One person was killed according to my memory, several injured.

Definitely not a peerless safety record.
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  #23  
Old 17.07.2014, 21:21
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Re: Malaysian airline come down over Ukraine

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Really? Well, I guess Lufthansa, Virgin, etc, aren't very responsible.
Indeed, if they hadn't already diverted, these airlines are run by f**kwits. But the good old Tu Quoque fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque) still leaves Malaysia Airlines firmly on the hook.
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Old 17.07.2014, 21:23
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Re: Malaysian airline come down over Ukraine

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Wrong.

A 777 fell short of the runway at Heathrow a few years back due to the engines suffering fuel starvation from a build up of ice crystals in the fuel. Nobody was injured, but that doesn't constitute a particularly safe way to land

A 777 crashed at SF international last year when it came in too low. One person was killed according to my memory, several injured.

Definitely not a peerless safety record.
Please compare it to its peers... (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/peerless)
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  #25  
Old 17.07.2014, 21:31
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Re: Malaysian airline come down over Ukraine

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Why on earth not? It's as safe as any other airline.
really? which other airlines have had a plane go missing and another shot down in the last few months?
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  #26  
Old 17.07.2014, 21:42
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

The pro-Russian rebels just announced via Russian news agencies that they shot down what they believed to be a Ukrainian transport plane in the at the same time and place where the Malaysian plane was downed:

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DONETSK, July 17. /ITAR-TASS/. Militiamen of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) brought down a military transport Antonov-26 (An-26) plane of the Ukrainian Air Force on the outskirts of the town of Torez, eyewitnesses said. A missile hit the An-26, it fell on the ground and caught blaze, they said.
On July 14, militiamen of the self-proclaimed Luhansk People’s Republic downed another An-26 of the Ukrainian Air Force.
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741164

Two weeks ago the rebels announced they had sophisticated anti-aircraft weaponry, the BUK, which can easily reach 10,000 meters (ie: crusing altitude of commercial flights):
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The self-defense forces of Donetsk People’s Republic seized control of a Ukrainian anti-air military installation, RIA Novosti reports.


"The forces of Donetsk People’s Republic assumed control of A-1402 military base," the militia's representative said. According to him, it is an anti-aircraft missile forces facility equipped with Buk mobile surface-to-air missile systems.
During the last several days the militia took control of two internal security troops' installations in eastern Ukraine.
Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_0...allation-1561/

Earlier this week, a Ukrainian transport plane flying at 6,000 meters was shot down:

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A Ukrainian military transport aircraft has been shot down in the east, amid fighting with pro-Russian separatist rebels, Ukrainian officials say.
They say the An-26 plane was hit at an altitude of 6,500m (21,325ft).
The plane was targeted with "a more powerful missile" than a shoulder-carried missile, "probably fired" from Russia. The crew survived, reports say.
Russia has made no comment. Separately, Nato reported a Russian troop build-up near the Ukraine border.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28299334
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  #27  
Old 17.07.2014, 21:48
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

Awful, absolutely awful! Complete outrageously irresponsible behaviour! I suppose Putin and Co will claim it is outside their control.
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  #28  
Old 17.07.2014, 21:51
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

Whoops, looks like the rebel leader was boasting on his Facebook (Vkontakt) page about it. Looks like the investigation won't take too long:

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Shortly before reports surfaced that a Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 had crashed in eastern Ukraine, a social media site purported to belong to a separatist leader claimed that insurgents had shot down an aircraft.
In a post on VKontakte, Russia's largest social media site, which has since been taken down, separatist leader Igor Girkin, aka Strelkov, wrote: "In the vicinity of Torez, we just downed a plane, an AN-26. It is lying somewhere in the Progress Mine. We have issued warnings not to fly in our airspace. We have video confirming. The bird fell on a waste heap. Residential areas were not hit. Civilians were not injured."


The AN-26 is a Soviet-built twin-engine transport plane used by the Ukrainian military. Torez is a small city of 80,000 located some 40 kilometers east of Donetsk. Included in the post were two videos that showed a rising plume of black smoke in the distance.
The claim was posted at 5:50 pm Moscow time, shortly before reports surfaced that the Malaysian civilian aircraft, on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, had crashed in eastern Ukraine in the same area near the Russian border.
http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine.../25460930.html
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  #29  
Old 17.07.2014, 21:55
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

This is a horrible scenario. Deepest sympathies to the families.
It reminds me of the korean airplane that was shot by a soviet jet-fighter in 83, and the iranian flight 655 shot by US navy.
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  #30  
Old 17.07.2014, 21:58
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

Not the first time this sort of thing has happened. At least this was rebels doing it. This Iran Air flight was shot down by the fricking US Navy!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
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  #31  
Old 17.07.2014, 22:31
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

I also remember the Soviet Union doing this when I was in high school:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean...nes_Flight_007
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  #32  
Old 17.07.2014, 23:01
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

This does have echoeing of KA007 (an airline which also had a bad run of accidents, including another 747 which crashed at Guam). However KA007 was way, way off course...not suprising if you have ever read any of the conversation between the pilot and co-pilot (some bizarre topics if I remember off hand).

Could we end up seeing commercial airlines being fitted with warning devices that let them know that a a SAM guidance system is "locked on" them? Or at least let it be recorded on the FDR.
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  #33  
Old 17.07.2014, 23:04
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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Could we end up seeing commercial airlines being fitted with warning devices that let them know that a a SAM guidance system is "locked on" them? Or at least let it be recorded on the FDR.
What help would that be?
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  #34  
Old 17.07.2014, 23:56
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

So so sad, latest nationalities figures, 154 Dutch, 27 Australian, 23 Malaysian, 6 UK, 4 German, 4 Belgiums

Last edited by telandy; 18.07.2014 at 00:11.
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  #35  
Old 18.07.2014, 00:16
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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This does have echoeing of KA007
A cousin of mine (third, actually, but I knew his grandfather well, first cousin of my grandfather) was on that flight (KA007).

Tom

Last edited by st2lemans; 18.07.2014 at 01:02.
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  #36  
Old 18.07.2014, 00:20
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Re: Malaysian airline come down over Ukraine

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really? which other airlines have had a plane go missing and another shot down in the last few months?
So mishaps are not allowed to happen back to back, one after another ?
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  #37  
Old 18.07.2014, 00:22
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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A cousin of mine (third, actually, but I knew his grandfather well, first cousin of my grandfather) was on that flight.

Tom
Condolences to you & extended family, & friends/colleagues
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  #38  
Old 18.07.2014, 00:38
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

Fox News and Reuters have reported for some hours that the Malaysian airliner had been shot down by pro-Russian separatists, but now the Washington Post is following suit and calling it official:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...rc=al_national
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  #39  
Old 18.07.2014, 01:38
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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What help would that be?


To my knowledge the EL AL has this plus flare countermeasure
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  #40  
Old 18.07.2014, 02:08
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

The BBC reported earlier that the rebels claim they have located/retrieved the black box.

I wonder what it will reveal - I wonder if the truth really will be revealed.

As yet, there is no confirmation what brought down the aircraft. A bomb on board. An air-to-air missile. A surface to air missile.

If indeed it was the rebels who brought it down, which seems the most likely at this point in time, the missiles could have been supplied by Russia or could have been from equipment and supplies captured from the Ukrainian forces.

Once again, I wonder if the truth really will be revealed.

Looking up previous downings of aircraft, it all makes very sad and gruesome reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...down_incidents
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