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  #381  
Old 12.08.2014, 00:51
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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It may be long and it may be rambling but it's the editor of one of Germany's leading *financial* newspapers choosing to remind the financial powers that there is a way out of the mess and that isn't jumping to conclusions, prejudice, finger pointing, etc.
Hmm. Argument by authority, anyone?

Again, not exactly sure I understand what this proposed way out actually is. Can you sum it up in a few sentences?

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And from the tone it doesn't seem to me that he is allowing for Russia to do as it pleases.
He's just telling all factions to take a chilly pill.
Yes. Take a chill pill while we shove the .... up your ...
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Which is what many ought to be doing in forums all over the internetz instead of adding more energies to the escalation towards a worse state of affairs.
That's unless you have something to gain directly from a conflict on EU's doorstep, that is.
Or to lose in a conflict started by someone else.
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  #382  
Old 12.08.2014, 09:17
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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Hmm. Argument by authority, anyone?
The following is quoted here (fabiusmaximus.com):
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About the author
Gabor Steingart, 48, is an international bestselling author and the editor-in-chief of the Handelsblatt, the leading business and financial newspaper in Germany. Steingart has been awarded the Economic Writer of the Year Award 2004 in Germany, and in 2007 he won the Helmut Schmidt Award for Advanced Journalism.

His op-ed pieces are published in The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times. Steingart´s weekly column “West Wing – The Battle for the White House” appeared for three years on Spiegel Online, BusinessWeek and RealClearPolitics.

… He has written six books, the first one at the age of 19. His book Germany: The decline of a superstar (2004) was on the German Bestseller list for nearly one year and became the 8th best selling non-fiction book of the year 2004 in Germany. The premise for the film “The Fall of Germany” produced by Stefan Aust and Claus Richter was based on his book. This documentary won the German TV Award of the year 2006.

The book The War for Wealth: The True Story of Globalization, or Why the Flat World Is Broken was also a bestseller in Germany and has been published in ten countries around the world …

Steingart is the son of a German mother and a Hungarian father. His father was an armed activist against the Communist party in Budapest 1956. After the Soviet tanks invaded, he escaped to West-Berlin.
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  #383  
Old 31.08.2014, 09:48
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

Russia demands publication of recordings from downed flight MH17

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia is demanding to know why international investigators have yet to publish the black box data from a Malaysian airliner that was shot down over eastern Ukraine in July, a deputy defense minister said in an interview published on Saturday.
....
"Why have the data still not been published about the conversations between the air traffic controllers and the pilots of the Boeing? Why haven't the data been presented from the international investigation of the black boxes? Who doesn't want this to happen?"
...
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-demands...lkA1ZJUDQxOF8x
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  #384  
Old 31.08.2014, 21:43
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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Russia demands publication of recordings from downed flight MH17

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia is demanding to know why international investigators have yet to publish the black box data from a Malaysian airliner that was shot down over eastern Ukraine in July, a deputy defense minister said in an interview published on Saturday.
....
"Why have the data still not been published about the conversations between the air traffic controllers and the pilots of the Boeing? Why haven't the data been presented from the international investigation of the black boxes? Who doesn't want this to happen?"
...
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-demands...lkA1ZJUDQxOF8x
About "Why have the data still not been published about the conversations between the air traffic controllers and the pilots of the Boeing? " Anybody with a radio set to the correct frequency can listen to these conversations; they are not coded or anything. If there was anything interesting somebody would have published it long ago.
During the Cold War the Russians monitored all such conversations, probably still do. I know a guy who learnt English doing this work in Russia.

About "Why haven't the data been presented from the international investigation of the black boxes?" It is difficult to imagine that anything new would come from this data; they just monitor and record internal air plane measurements.
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  #385  
Old 08.09.2014, 16:31
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

Some serious internet-sleuthing.

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The Buk that was seen leaving the suspected area of the missile launch on the 17th of July most likely belonged to and was manned by Russian troops from the 53rd Kursk Brigade.
https://bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-e...ussian-troops/
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  #386  
Old 09.09.2014, 21:32
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

BBC reports eyewitness' accounts of Russian soldiers bringing a rocket launcher on the area:

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One eyewitness saw the missile-launcher roll off a low-loader at Snezhnoye, around ten miles from the crash site, at around 13:30 local time (10:30 GMT).

"We just saw it being offloaded and when the BUK started its engine the exhaust smoke filled the whole town square," he said.


The eyewitness told the BBC that the crew struck him as Russian soldiers: "Well-disciplined, unlike the rebels, and not wearing the standard Ukrainian camouflage uniform sported by government and rebel troops alike."

"They had pure Russian accents. They say the letter 'g' differently to us," he said.

In eastern Ukraine, most people speak Russian but the BUK crew did not speak Russian with a local accent.

Investigators said the plane was hit by shrapnel from a fragmentation weapon such as a BUK
His testimony was confirmed by a second eyewitness, who added that an officer in a military jeep escorting the BUK spoke with a Muscovite accent.
http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29109398
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  #387  
Old 09.09.2014, 22:14
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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Some serious internet-sleuthing.

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The Buk that was seen leaving the suspected area of the missile launch on the 17th of July most likely belonged to and was manned by Russian troops from the 53rd Kursk Brigade.
https://bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-e...ussian-troops/
Well, it's not rocket scie... Oh.
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  #388  
Old 21.09.2014, 22:00
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

"This is an excellent detailed analysis of the MH17 tragedy by the Russian Union of Engineers which quite frankly illustrates how heavily censored the Dutch “report” is.
....
A group of experts from the Russian Union of engineers was convened to analyze the situation, including reserve officers with experience in the use of anti-aircraft missile systems, as well as pilots having experience with aircraft weapons.This problem was also discussed at a meeting of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems, where many variants were tested and discussed again. In the course of their analysis the experts used materials derived from public sources, found in the media. The situation was also analyzed using a computer simulation of the Su-25."

You can download the report in Russian and in English here:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysi...ineers/5403291
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  #389  
Old 21.09.2014, 22:07
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

How the hell the said society had more data to work with than the Dutch investigators?
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  #390  
Old 21.09.2014, 22:13
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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How the hell the said society had more data to work with than the Dutch investigators?
The said society had more data to work with because they didn't have any data to hide?
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  #391  
Old 21.09.2014, 22:16
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

No, the said society had no data to work on as no data was released so far by Russia, right? So these are pure speculations at best While the Dutch had people on the ground collecting evidence.
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  #392  
Old 21.09.2014, 22:22
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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"This is an excellent detailed analysis of the MH17 tragedy by the Russian Union of Engineers which quite frankly illustrates how heavily censored the Dutch “report” is.
....
A group of experts from the Russian Union of engineers was convened to analyze the situation, including reserve officers with experience in the use of anti-aircraft missile systems, as well as pilots having experience with aircraft weapons.This problem was also discussed at a meeting of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems, where many variants were tested and discussed again. In the course of their analysis the experts used materials derived from public sources, found in the media. The situation was also analyzed using a computer simulation of the Su-25."

You can download the report in Russian and in English here:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysi...ineers/5403291
Quote from the Russian anlaysis of a possible missile attack
a. The impact of the warhead follows a characteristic pattern which can be
observed from the ground during clear weather.


Quote from the Russian analysis of a possible fighter aircraft attack
b. An attack by a military plane would not be observable from the ground because of the thick layer of cloud at the medium and lower levels

Anyway it was the Russians who released radar information that the "fighter plane" never got in cannon range of the airliner.

Pity the Russians never let the investigators have access to the wreckage.
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  #393  
Old 19.10.2014, 14:30
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

German intelligence service announced today that the plane was shot down by the pro-Russians with a stolen Ukraine owned Rocket launcher.

Seems to leave some questions like how did they learn to use it plus the Govt. Claimed they had not lost any launchers?
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  #394  
Old 10.11.2014, 18:05
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

And so it goes...

German Foreign Ministry plays down intel report claiming Ukraine militia downed MH17
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  #395  
Old 15.11.2014, 18:25
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

"Three months after Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was brought down over Ukraine, there are still no definitive answers about what caused the tragedy. Civil conflict in the area prevented international experts from conducting a full and thorough investigation. The wreckage should have been collected and scrupulously re-assembled to identify all the damage, but this standard investigative procedure was never carried out. Until that’s done, evidence can only be gleaned from pictures of the debris, the flight recorders (black boxes) and eye-witnesses testimonies. This may be enough to help build a picture of what really happened to the aircraft, whether a rocket fired from the ground or a military jet fired on the doomed plane."

This is a 30-minute documentary from RT... MH17 : the untold story

http://rt.com/shows/documentary/1975...crash-ukraine/
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  #396  
Old 15.11.2014, 18:28
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

Russian TV channel says photos show MH17 shot down by fighter jet.

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian state-controlled TV has broadcast what it called "sensational" photographs, which it said supported Moscow's theory that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter jet.

Several commentators who have examined the photographs have described them as forgeries, however.

The photographs, said to be taken by a Western satellite, appear to show a fighter jet firing a missile at a passenger plane over eastern Ukraine where the Malaysian airliner was shot down on July 17, killing all 298 people on board.

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-tv-cha...120128390.html
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Old 15.11.2014, 18:51
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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Russian TV channel says photos show MH17 shot down by fighter jet.

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian state-controlled TV has broadcast what it called "sensational" photographs, which it said supported Moscow's theory that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter jet.

Several commentators who have examined the photographs have described them as forgeries, however.

The photographs, said to be taken by a Western satellite, appear to show a fighter jet firing a missile at a passenger plane over eastern Ukraine where the Malaysian airliner was shot down on July 17, killing all 298 people on board.

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-tv-cha...120128390.html
Doesn't even seem to be the right type of aircraft amongst other inaccuracies.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30064374

Nor does it even seem to be new.

"Several commentators pointed out that the "Malaysia" logo on the plane from the photograph was in the wrong place. Maksim Kats, a Russian blogger, said the plane in the picture looked like a slightly altered version of the one that tops the search results if you Google "Boeing view from above" in Russian. It also happens to be a publicity photo of a Boeing 767, not a 777, which was shot down over Ukraine in July.

Others noted that the fighter jet looked different from an Su-25 - the type which the Russian media had consistently claimed shot down MH17.

There were also claims that the shape of clouds in the satellite image proved that it actually came from a Google Earth photo of the area taken on 28 August 2012.

Furthermore, those who carried out a reverse image search on Google found that the photograph with the two planes was not so new or exclusive after all: it was first uploaded to a Russian forum on 15 October. Its source was claimed to be "enthusiasts from the Russian wikileaks"."

Basically just another Russian attempt at propaganda - and a badly done one at that.
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  #398  
Old 15.11.2014, 22:21
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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...Basically just another Russian attempt at propaganda - and a badly done one at that.
...Yet nobody else (US? NATO? Kiev? ANYBODY???) is willing or able to produce any compelling, definitive evidence to the contrary, despite the plethora of claims and accusations made by — you guessed it — the US, NATO and Kiev (i.e., EVERYBODY on the anti-Russian bandwagon), even though they have the black boxes and real-time satellite recordings.

("Oh yes, everything's fine, just move along and ignore the absence of western-supplied factual evidence — and don't forget to hate the Russians!")

[The essence of US/western attempts at propaganda - and badly done at that.]

Give me a break!!

Last edited by Texaner; 15.11.2014 at 22:41.
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Old 15.11.2014, 22:43
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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...Yet nobody else (US? NATO? Kiev? ANYBODY???) is willing or able to produce any compelling, definitive evidence to the contrary, despite the plethora of claims and accusations made by — you guessed it — the US, NATO and Kiev (i.e., EVERYBODY on the anti-Russian bandwagon), even though they have the black boxes and real-time satellite recordings.

("Oh yes, everything's fine, just move along and ignore the absence of western-supplied factual evidence — and don't forget to hate the Russians!")

Give me a break!!
Well, as they're STILL trying to get access to the site, factual proof is a bit difficult to come by at the moment.

And frankly, the Russians haven't produced any compelling, definitive evidence either.
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Old 16.11.2014, 00:00
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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Well, as they're STILL trying to get access to the site, factual proof is a bit difficult to come by at the moment...
...And exactly why is that Russia's fault? Where is the direct, definitive, factual and unequivocal evidence that Russia is making access to the site difficult? It's Ukraine's territory. It happens that the eastern part of the Ukrainian state is experiencing turmoil. Who's been proven to be at fault?

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...the Russians haven't produced any compelling, definitive evidence either.
How do you know? How do your definitions of 'compelling' and 'definitive' compare to those commonly used among legal, intelligence, military and media entities? Have you checked?

The Russians have provided whatever data they had, never claiming it was exhaustive. They've been saying from the beginning that an accurate assessment of the facts of the matter demands transparent access to all relevant data.

Hasn't happened yet, and it sure ain't the Russians standing in the way.
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