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  #441  
Old 05.04.2015, 12:44
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

Obviously you can't refute the logic
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  #442  
Old 05.04.2015, 12:59
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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Obviously you can't refute the logic
Logic?? No, I do not speculate about topics I know nothing about

I just quote from the experts
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  #443  
Old 05.04.2015, 13:27
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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I didn't say it does.

But the standard-equipment R-60 does, with just enough reach (possibly subject to which variant was used, but 5km and 10km should do anyway).

Not to speak of the R-73 with 20-40km reach,

I challenge you to run 10km on flat surface and then with a 10%gradient.
https://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2...ot-down-a-777/
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  #444  
Old 05.04.2015, 14:16
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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I didn't say it does.

But the standard-equipment R-60 does, with just enough reach (possibly subject to which variant was used, but 5km and 10km should do anyway).

Not to speak of the R-73 with 20-40km reach, which is used by Ukraine and does fit on some SU-25 variants.

See above and below.



The SU25 is said to have been part of a 3-plane raid on eastern Ukraine, only the SU25 returned. And that has SU25 fly towards the 777 as the latter was eastwards bound, which in turn makes the roughly equal max speed irrelevant, as well as the relatively low speed of the R-60.

Being on the way home also means the SU25 was empty, making max reachable altitude reasonably close to max altitude.
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Obviously you can't refute the logic
About "The SU25 is said to have been part of a 3-plane raid on eastern Ukraine, "
So the SU25 was on a ground attack mission in Eastern Ukraine, but it could not complete this mission because it was fitted with air to air missiles not ground attack missiles (even though the rebels have no aircraft).


About "Being on the way home also means the SU25 was empty" Empty? You mean apart from the air to air missiles?
The SU25 was flying home and then decided fire these missiles at a civil aircraft that was around 5Km above it and (according to the Russians) around 5 Km ahead of it - so plane to plane distance was around 7Km!
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  #445  
Old 05.04.2015, 21:08
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

It's amazing there are some people who actually latch on to the SU25 theory and feel compelled to defend that POV despite all the technical impossibilities of that being able to actually happen...and the mountain of real evidence pointing to a Russian BUK ground-fired missile shooting MH17 down.

But I guess that's Russia's disinformation warfare at work. They throw some bizarre theories out there, most people clearly see it as rubbish, but if even 10% of the population latches onto it, then they are succeeding.
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  #446  
Old 05.04.2015, 23:21
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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It's amazing there are some people who actually latch on to the SU25 theory and feel compelled to defend that POV despite all the technical impossibilities of that being able to actually happen...and the mountain of real evidence pointing to a Russian BUK ground-fired missile shooting MH17 down.

But I guess that's Russia's disinformation warfare at work. They throw some bizarre theories out there, most people clearly see it as rubbish, but if even 10% of the population latches onto it, then they are succeeding.
I have the impression that the Russian General given the job to create this story did not want to do the job. Consequently he invented the most stupid story possible.

I mean claiming a ground attack aircraft downed a 777; who could possibly believe that.
If he had said a MIG 29 then at least it would be feasible even if not true
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  #447  
Old 06.04.2015, 14:53
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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I challenge you to run 10km on flat surface and then with a 10%gradient.
Funny, I thought this was about jets and not about running abilities of humans.

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About "Being on the way home also means the SU25 was empty" Empty? You mean apart from the air to air missiles?
The SU25 was flying home and then decided fire these missiles at a civil aircraft that was around 5Km above it and (according to the Russians) around 5 Km ahead of it - so plane to plane distance was around 7Km!
5km height is only reasonable under the assumption that this was its max reachable height, which in turn implies full load, which is unrealistic: The SU25 was on its way home, fuel tanks must have been far from full, and probably lots of its weapons used/spent.

But even then it's possible:

The R-60 has at least 5km reach (8km according to wiki, possibly subject to actual version), runs at mach 2.5 which is equivalent to about 70m/sec., and thus takes at least 70sec to burn thru its fuel. During those 70sec the 777 covered about 2km.

That adds up to 7km. Despite the unrealistic assumption that the SU25 was flying at only 5km height.

The point is:
Ukraine can't be ruled out as the party that shot them down.

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About "The SU25 is said to have been part of a 3-plane raid on eastern Ukraine, "
So the SU25 was on a ground attack mission in Eastern Ukraine, but it could not complete this mission because it was fitted with air to air missiles not ground attack missiles (even though the rebels have no aircraft).
Did the Ukranians want to have some defense against russian jets? (remember, the SU25 is said to have been part of a 3-jet raid). You don't know.

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About "So where is it, that [US] purported proof" I assume they are waiting for completion of the official accident investigation.
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Logic?? No, I do not speculate about topics I know nothing about
Right.
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  #448  
Old 14.05.2015, 21:49
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

Sensation
Yesterday a Moscow newspaper, nowaja Geseta, published Mh17 was shot down by a BUK missile
Now we just have to agree who fired it!
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  #449  
Old 14.05.2015, 21:56
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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Sensation
Yesterday a Moscow newspaper, nowaja Geseta, published Mh17 was shot down by a BUK missile
Now we just have to agree who fired it!
Link here in English http://en.novayagazeta.ru/
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  #450  
Old 14.05.2015, 23:31
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Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

And here is an analysis of photos of the Buk launcher - these photos made by Russian soldiers and left on social media are evidence of the launcher being brought by Russian army.
http://mobile2.tagesanzeiger.ch/arti...da8b6cde000001
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  #451  
Old 01.06.2015, 14:31
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

Article in Tages Anzeiger today about how Moscow faked the satellite pictures they published last year showing Ukraine BUK launchers in position to attack MH17, quote here (in German language).
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  #452  
Old 01.06.2015, 15:29
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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Article in Tages Anzeiger today about how Moscow faked the satellite pictures they published last year showing Ukraine BUK launchers in position to attack MH17, quote here (in German language).
Indeed. It is a shockingly poor level of journalism from the Tages Anzeiger that they lift articles direct and unquestioningly from a dubious blog. (www.bellingcat.com)
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  #453  
Old 02.06.2015, 14:41
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

Russia state run media is now saying that MH17 could only have been shot down by a ground-launched BUK missile, and is prepared to stage an elaborate experiment to prove that:

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MOSCOW, June 2. /TASS/. Russia’s weapons manufacturer Almaz-Antei is prepared to stage an experiment at its own expense proving that the Malaysian Airlines’ flight MH17 was downed by a missile launched with a Buk-M1 system, the concern’s CEO Yan Novikov said on Tuesday.

"If necessary, we will be prepared to stage a full-scale real-life experiment attended by independent observers and experts," he said. "In other words, we will blow up a 9M38M1 missile placed next to the fuselage of the same manufacturer’s written-off plane at the angles mentioned at this presentation."
http://tass.ru/en/world/798098

So now months later, Russia is suddenly contradicting their own main theory of MH17 being shot down by some mysterious fighter plane (that was incapable of shooting it down in the first place)?
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  #454  
Old 02.06.2015, 15:02
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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So now months later, Russia is suddenly contradicting their own main theory of MH17 being shot down by some mysterious fighter plane (that was incapable of shooting it down in the first place)?
They probably don't care about it anymore. Sounds more like a sales/publicity stunt - is there any major arms fair coming up soon?
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  #455  
Old 02.06.2015, 15:56
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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Sounds more like a sales/publicity stunt -
...or more like theater of the absurd. Russia's tactic of disinformation, propaganda, etc. designed to lead people down blind alleys while they laugh up their sleeves.

I think the MH17 investigation headed by the Dutch has reached a point where it can only be a BUK, and now Russia has decided to ditch their fighter jet theory and join the BUK theory, but to make it out to be the Ukrainians who shot it down....which is still ridiculous, because only Ukraine had air superiority (ie: no Russian or pro-Russian jets in the sky) so why would Ukraine be shooting BUK's? On the contrary, Ukraine had several of their own planes shot down by BUK's in the days prior by Russians....

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According to Prime Minster Mark Rutte, the fact that one of the people that was possibly involved in the disaster has been identified as a Senior Russian officer, shows that the investigation team is working hard on the investigation. Rutte would not go into the matter any further.
http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/04/03/mh1...icials-report/
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  #456  
Old 02.06.2015, 18:34
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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Indeed. It is a shockingly poor level of journalism from the Tages Anzeiger that they lift articles direct and unquestioningly from a dubious blog. (www.bellingcat.com)
What is your source for saying "dubious blog" ? Eliot Higgins has a reasonable reputation in investigative journalism!
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  #457  
Old 03.06.2015, 21:51
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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Russia state run media is now saying that MH17 could only have been shot down by a ground-launched BUK missile, and is prepared to stage an elaborate experiment to prove that:


http://tass.ru/en/world/798098

So now months later, Russia is suddenly contradicting their own main theory of MH17 being shot down by some mysterious fighter plane (that was incapable of shooting it down in the first place)?
This is not the "Russian story" but the story of the Russian company which manufacturing weapons. This might sound shocking but they do have their own theory apparently
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  #458  
Old 03.06.2015, 22:14
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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This is not the "Russian story" but the story of the Russian company which manufacturing weapons. This might sound shocking but they do have their own theory apparently
ITAR-TASS is Russian state-controlled media, and is pretty much the voice of the Russian government. The headlines they choose to run says alot about the agendas they are promoting. And the BUK story was the front headline the other day.


...so what happened to the SU25 theory BTW? That was the leading theory coming from Russian media for months. Now nearly all Russian media is saying it was for sure a BUK, but no explanation why they suddenly switched stories
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  #459  
Old 03.06.2015, 22:29
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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ITAR-TASS is Russian state-controlled media, and is pretty much the voice of the Russian government. The headlines they choose to run says alot about the agendas they are promoting. And the BUK story was the front headline the other day.


...so what happened to the SU25 theory BTW? That was the leading theory coming from Russian media for months. Now nearly all Russian media is saying it was for sure a BUK, but no explanation why they suddenly switched stories
Did the Russian government officially announced that TASS represents the voice of it? If yes, then you are right asking these questions. If not, then maybe you are kind of wrong ))
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  #460  
Old 03.06.2015, 23:12
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Re: Malaysian Airlines MH 17 has crashed over Ukraine

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Did the Russian government officially announced that TASS represents the voice of it? If yes, then you are right asking these questions. If not, then maybe you are kind of wrong ))
The Russian government owns TASS, so they control what is said/printed in TASS.
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