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View Poll Results: Would you favour Scotland opting for indepence from UK
YES........ go for it 31 50.00%
NO.......... hang on for dear life 31 50.00%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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  #181  
Old 27.08.2014, 11:15
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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Ireland is still dependant on EU and USA funding and can hardly be called a success story (look at Irish property market and GDP)
They were doing pretty well before they joined the Euro.

What happened to the Celtic Tiger?

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and the countries that came out of the USSR are significantly larger and more economically viable than Scotland and are still going through difficulties of their own, politically and financially.
They're only in trouble because the old masters keep trying to claw back influence.

More positive examples might be Slovakia and Slovenia.

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And lastly, its not about comparing Scotland to the likes of the Balkans, Ireland or Ukraine for example.....its about whether Scotland will be better off outside the UK. And the fact is, no one can say with any certainty that it will be, based on hard evidence and real balance sheets.... If Scotland gain independence and the system fails, people and businesses will move south, leaving Scotland to the sheep.....Devolution MAX - back to the dark ages. Is that what you want for Scotland? I don't.
Businesses like to threaten to move away. It's how big corporations blackmail governments. But threats can hurt both ways. Imagine the exodus of Scottish customers that RBS might suffer if it followed up on its threats and moved to London. People will always need banks and thus there wil always be Scottish banks.
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  #182  
Old 27.08.2014, 11:17
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

An Independent Scotland for sure would be successful in the long term but it may take a few years of adjustment. However to compare Scotland's possible secession from the UK with the break up of the USSR or Yugoslavia isn't accurate or useful.
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  #183  
Old 27.08.2014, 11:42
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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An Independent Scotland for sure would be successful in the long term but it may take a few years of adjustment. However to compare Scotland's possible secession from the UK with the break up of the USSR or Yugoslavia isn't accurate or useful.
You are right. These countries had to win independence at gunpoint, depleting many of their resources and start countries from scratch, with nothing.

Scotland on the other hand is already a wealthy, vibrant country that can win freedom democratically for just the cost of printing up some ballot papers. Our infrastructure is already in place and the adjustment phase would be trivial compared to my previous examples.
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  #184  
Old 27.08.2014, 11:44
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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An Independent Scotland for sure would be successful in the long term but it may take a few years of adjustment. However to compare Scotland's possible secession from the UK with the break up of the USSR or Yugoslavia isn't accurate or useful.
I would love for Scotland to become successfully independent, and would probably even apply for my Scottish Passport in time, HOWEVER, I am still not convinced that it will work on the basis that it is currently being negotiated. We are seeing what can best be described as an acrimonious divorce between Edinburgh and Westminster, where there will be no winners in the short term, and this short term is the period of time that Scotland will need IF it is to have any chance of succeeding. If Scotland is to stand a chance of getting off the ground, it needs the UK to prop it up for a while until it works out its currency, immigration and defence etc. Unfortunately this is not on the negotiating table, so to my mind it is doomed before it starts - and this is why Salmond SHOULD be providing factual evidence and well laid plans with time lines/costs/revenues, as to how he intends to achieve this split and not end up in the poor house. This he has not achieved and this worries me beyond all other emotive concepts of a independent Scotland.
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  #185  
Old 27.08.2014, 12:42
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Chill Neal you are beginning to sound frantic.
I hope there are no import controls on Haggis
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  #186  
Old 27.08.2014, 13:39
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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Chill Neal you are beginning to sound frantic.
I hope there are no import controls on Haggis
Because that is the attitude that Salmond has bred into the yes voters.
Aggressive 'we're right your wrong', nothing in between.
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  #187  
Old 27.08.2014, 13:47
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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Chill Neal you are beginning to sound frantic.
I hope there are no import controls on Haggis
Oh ho ho ho...haggis....hahahahaaaaaa...comedy gold! Oh my aching sides. Surely you're a comedian or somethign with razor sharp wit like that? And if not, then oh emm gee, you should be. Lol! LOL! LOOOOOOOL! ROFL LMAO etc. Yawn.

I disagree though, I don't sound frantic, the desperation of those lying and selling fear in the hope of duping Scots into voting no is getting more frantic by the day. Just witness our friend sbrinz above.
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  #188  
Old 27.08.2014, 13:49
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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Scotland on the other hand is already a wealthy, vibrant country.
Because it is part of the UK.

Why rush in now to something so risky if we are currently a early and vibrant country? Why not wait till all questions have been answered and there is no risk?

Are you voting yes for the sake of Scotland or simply because you hate the Tory party?
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  #189  
Old 27.08.2014, 13:51
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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Oh ho ho ho...haggis....hahahahaaaaaa...comedy gold! Oh my aching sides. Surely you're a comedian or somethign with razor sharp wit like that? And if not, then oh emm gee, you should be. Lol! LOL! LOOOOOOOL! ROFL LMAO etc. Yawn.

I disagree though, I don't sound frantic, the desperation of those lying and selling fear in the hope of duping Scots into voting no is getting more frantic by the day. Just witness our friend sbrinz above.
You're actually embarrassing yourself now.
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  #190  
Old 27.08.2014, 13:51
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

I'm British, not English.
I identify far more with Edinburgh than I do with London.
Scotland deciding to commit suicide wouldn't be good for my self-identity (or of course for most people in the country bar Alex Salmond).

One thing I find particularly funny/annoying about the whole debate is the way the yes people are so keen to turn it into a current SNP policies vs. current Tory policies debate. I dearly hope the people north of the border won't buy into such short termist and naiive thinking- without Scotland it is likely the Tories will have a lot more power in Britain, and the English and Scottish economies remain very tied together, with England being by far the larger of the two (i.e. what happens in England will continue to affect Scotland a tonne. Especially if the Scots insist on continuing to use the pound). Just imagine how bad the Tories would be to Scotland if they were set free to care as little as they like about looking after Scots.
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  #191  
Old 27.08.2014, 14:01
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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You're actually embarrassing yourself now.
Your concern is noted and appreciated, but please don't worry about me, Highlander, I'm not embarrassed at all.
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  #192  
Old 27.08.2014, 14:11
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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I'm British, not English.
I identify far more with Edinburgh than I do with London.
Scotland deciding to commit suicide wouldn't be good for my self-identity (or of course for most people in the country bar Alex Salmond).

One thing I find particularly funny/annoying about the whole debate is the way the yes people are so keen to turn it into a current SNP policies vs. current Tory policies debate. I dearly hope the people north of the border won't buy into such short termist and naiive thinking- without Scotland it is likely the Tories will have a lot more power in Britain, and the English and Scottish economies remain very tied together, with England being by far the larger of the two (i.e. what happens in England will continue to affect Scotland a tonne. Especially if the Scots insist on continuing to use the pound). Just imagine how bad the Tories would be to Scotland if they were set free to care as little as they like about looking after Scots.
Not quite sure I understand this, you're suggesting we should vote no to continue sending our non-Tory MPs to westminster to protect us from the possibility of a future Tory-dominated rUK taking some revenge on an independent Scotland?
What sort of revenge do you think they would take?

Incidentally, I'm also British, as I stated earlier I'm a relatively happy Brit. I just think that Scotland could be better managed on its own without worrying about our neighbours so much, be they Tory, LibDem, Labour, or whatever - a smaller, more manageable population on a relatively large plot of land, so for me it's a selfish thing. I'm sorry (a bit anyway) to leave the rest of Britain, but there is no real will for political reform in the rUK so in that case I'd rather we went alone.
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  #193  
Old 27.08.2014, 14:19
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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Not quite sure I understand this, you're suggesting we should vote no to continue sending our non-Tory MPs to westminster to protect us from the possibility of a future Tory-dominated rUK taking some revenge on an independent Scotland?
What sort of revenge do you think they would take?

Incidentally, I'm also British, as I stated earlier I'm a relatively happy Brit. I just think that Scotland could be better managed on its own without worrying about our neighbours so much, be they Tory, LibDem, Labour, or whatever - a smaller, more manageable population on a relatively large plot of land, so for me it's a selfish thing. I'm sorry (a bit anyway) to leave the rest of Britain, but there is no real will for political reform in the rUK so in that case I'd rather we went alone.

And there it is....the YES vote is based entirely on the end result of Politics..... To everyone else, politics is a means of managing a nation, not the purpose of a nation. You cant feed your family on words. You cant heal your sick standing on soap boxes. You cant see your fate staring into a ballot box! The good part about politics is you can change your mind as often as you like.....but this vote is for life. Why gamble simply because you believe your style of politics is better than UK? Madness!
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  #194  
Old 27.08.2014, 14:24
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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Not quite sure I understand this, you're suggesting we should vote no to continue sending our non-Tory MPs to westminster to protect us from the possibility of a future Tory-dominated rUK taking some revenge on an independent Scotland?
What sort of revenge do you think they would take?

Incidentally, I'm also British, as I stated earlier I'm a relatively happy Brit. I just think that Scotland could be better managed on its own without worrying about our neighbours so much, be they Tory, LibDem, Labour, or whatever - a smaller, more manageable population on a relatively large plot of land, so for me it's a selfish thing. I'm sorry (a bit anyway) to leave the rest of Britain, but there is no real will for political reform in the rUK so in that case I'd rather we went alone.
I along with I'm sure a lot of the no side want Scottish independence but we want it under the right circumstances when all questions have been answered and there is limited risk.

The problem with Salmond is for his own gain he is aggressively pushing it now based on a 'trust me everything will be fine'.

Scotland is far too precious to take that risk.
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  #195  
Old 27.08.2014, 14:34
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

If the major banks BOS (subsidriary of Lloyds and 65% state owned) and RBS (80% state owned) is this the reason Salmond wants to keep the pound. I can see why having own currency is difficult with the politics of the ownership of these banks that print the money. So he should let the ECB print the money in form of Euros what is so difficult. Don't know why he is resisting what is obvious or is the point it is cheaper to print scottish pounds. If ECB came in with an offer he couldn't refuse sure he would be tempted but dropping pound if you were voting yes would that be a killer criteria ?
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  #196  
Old 27.08.2014, 14:36
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

As I have never lived in Scotland, and I never will, I am withdrawing from the discussion.

I will leave Duncan and Connor to try and convince Neil and StirB that Samond is a politician, good at rabble rousing. Nothing more!

I will reply to the accusations I lied to you later, in full.

I cannot post any more for a while: my profile states I am from London.

Gordon Brown is a Scot, he is an ex prime minister of UK, ex finance minister to Tony Blair, he was heckled in Dundee on 28.8.2014
http://www.scotsman.com/video/News/g...-3752995722001
.

Last edited by Sbrinz; 28.08.2014 at 12:10.
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  #197  
Old 27.08.2014, 14:39
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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And there it is....the YES vote is based entirely on the end result of Politics..... To everyone else, politics is a means of managing a nation, not the purpose of a nation. You cant feed your family on words. You cant heal your sick standing on soap boxes. You cant see your fate staring into a ballot box! The good part about politics is you can change your mind as often as you like.....but this vote is for life. Why gamble simply because you believe your style of politics is better than UK? Madness!
Well because I don't really see it as a gamble, or maybe I see it as less of a gamble than staying in the UK. What people fail to see is that this is a movement that's grown over some time, it's not just some opportunistic stab at it, and now it looks like we have approximately half of the population agreeing on this, whether it turns out to be more than half or less than half will be seen on September 18th.

It's about many things over a long period of time - had Thatcher given a thought to the post-industrial landscape when she de-indistrialised, had Tony Blair been a bit more leftist with his massive majority or had he not attacked Iraq, we might not be here having this discussion; likewise had Nick Clegg stuck it out and demanded a fairer, more representative electoral system in 2010 (something we've had in Scotland since 99) and pushed for their idea of a more federal UK, we might not be here having this discussion. As it is, any reforming ideas in the UK are dead before they even start, but here we have this huge chance to start again, and with a more localised government, elected on a fairer system, which the people can have much more of an influence on.

The question is why would I take the risk of staying in the UK?
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  #198  
Old 27.08.2014, 14:46
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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As I have never lived in Scotland, and I never will, I am withdrawing from the discussion.

I will leave Duncan and Connor to try and convince Neil and StirB that Samond is a politician, on an equal with the leader of the brown shirts in 1932. (Note: not better, only equal with the distortions and rabble rousing)

I will reply to the accusations I lied to you later, in full.
No offence Sbrinz, but maybe you should have declared your allegiance at the start.
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  #199  
Old 27.08.2014, 14:47
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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As I have never lived in Scotland, and I never will, I am withdrawing from the discussion.

I will leave Duncan and Connor to try and convince Neil and StirB that Samond is a politician, on an equal with the leader of the brown shirts in 1932. (Note: not better, only equal with the distortions and rabble rousing)

I will reply to the accusations I lied to you later, in full.
I'm with you I'm out.
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  #200  
Old 27.08.2014, 14:48
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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As I have never lived in Scotland, and I never will, I am withdrawing from the discussion.

I will leave Duncan and Connor to try and convince Neil and StirB that Samond is a politician, on an equal with the leader of the brown shirts in 1932. (Note: not better, only equal with the distortions and rabble rousing)

I will reply to the accusations I lied to you later, in full.
Wow! Congratulations on elevating yourself to worst post on the thread, I thought the haggis jibe was bad, but this takes the biscuit. Salmond is equal to the brown shirts is he? Perhaps you might want to explain that to those of us who aren't completely insane.

I wait with breath baited for your justification of your lie about "most of the EU countries already stating they'd block Scotland" too.
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