Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
View Poll Results: Would you favour Scotland opting for indepence from UK
YES........ go for it 31 50.00%
NO.......... hang on for dear life 31 50.00%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #321  
Old 09.09.2014, 12:53
lucy_who's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 642
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,002 Times in 384 Posts
lucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

See, we could have avoided all this pain and aggro if Cameron had allowed the referendum to include a "devo max" option - especially since that is what is now being offered to the Scots if they vote No.

Reply With Quote
  #322  
Old 09.09.2014, 12:56
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ZH
Posts: 5,069
Groaned at 62 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,526 Posts
SOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the SNP stated it is aiming for a 100% renewable energy policy? Yet they are counting on the proceeds of oil and natural gas as a source of income. Hypocritical, much?
Not too dissimilar to DC gamble on green energy taxes U-turn.
Reply With Quote
  #323  
Old 09.09.2014, 12:57
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 16,555
Groaned at 1,063 Times in 822 Posts
Thanked 44,086 Times in 13,632 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
See, we could have avoided all this pain and aggro if Cameron had allowed the referendum to include a "devo max" option - especially since that is what is now being offered to the Scots if they vote No.

We could have avoided even more aggo if there'd been a "Culloden" option.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
  #324  
Old 09.09.2014, 13:04
lucy_who's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 642
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,002 Times in 384 Posts
lucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
About "Perhaps freedom from Westminster control." Certainly a popular rallying cry! But in reality most control comes from Brussels these days; how many new laws in the past few years were "UK only" and how many from EU?
About a third. Mainly on environmental and safety issues which, by and large, benefit individuals at the expense of corporations - which is why the Right loathes the EU.

Indirectly, the EU Human Rights legislation has a broad impact across all sorts of domestic legislation - again, mainly in protecting the rights of the individual from actions of the State, and so also not much liked by politicians.

The things that have *really* pissed people off - Bedroom Tax, ATOS, creeping privatisation of the NHS, selling off Royal Mail on the cheap to their mates - are all down to Westminster.
Reply With Quote
  #325  
Old 09.09.2014, 13:08
ratbag's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 466
Groaned at 21 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 374 Times in 203 Posts
ratbag is considered knowledgeableratbag is considered knowledgeableratbag is considered knowledgeable
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
We could have avoided even more aggo if there'd been a "Culloden" option.
Yup.

And their desire to be elsewhere at any price might be symptomatic of your, and the Tory establishments, obvious contempt for the Scots
Reply With Quote
  #326  
Old 09.09.2014, 13:11
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,253
Groaned at 181 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 17,625 Times in 7,484 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the SNP stated it is aiming for a 100% renewable energy policy? Yet they are counting on the proceeds of oil and natural gas as a source of income. Hypocritical, much?
Oil and gas is reneweable if you can wait for a couple of million years.

The North Sea is full of nasty squiggly creatures and they're dying all the time. Just let nature run its course.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #327  
Old 09.09.2014, 13:35
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,583
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,610 Times in 6,342 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
About a third. Mainly on environmental and safety issues which, by and large, benefit individuals at the expense of corporations - which is why the Right loathes the EU.

Indirectly, the EU Human Rights legislation has a broad impact across all sorts of domestic legislation - again, mainly in protecting the rights of the individual from actions of the State, and so also not much liked by politicians.

The things that have *really* pissed people off - Bedroom Tax, ATOS, creeping privatisation of the NHS, selling off Royal Mail on the cheap to their mates - are all down to Westminster.
But those things are all reasons to vote in a different political party not to form an independent country. What happens if Scotland introduces laws that people do not like? Independence for the Hebrides?
Anyway I thought the situation was different in Scotland for Bedroom Tax & privatisation of the NHS?

ATOS have quit the contract and another contractor is sought.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #328  
Old 09.09.2014, 13:39
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,253
Groaned at 181 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 17,625 Times in 7,484 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
But those things are all reasons to vote in a different political party not to form an independent country. What happens if Scotland introduces laws that people do not like? Independence for the Hebrides?
I understand that the Orkneys have already been threatening just that.

I doubt they have the ability to act on it though.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #329  
Old 09.09.2014, 13:49
lucy_who's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 642
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,002 Times in 384 Posts
lucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
But those things are all reasons to vote in a different political party not to form an independent country. What happens if Scotland introduces laws that people do not like? Independence for the Hebrides?
Anyway I thought the situation was different in Scotland for Bedroom Tax & privatisation of the NHS?

ATOS have quit the contract and another contractor is sought.
No, the Bedroom Tax has definitely hit Scotland too - pensions and benefits aren't devolved. I'm not sure about NHS Scotland tbh. People are pissed off that the ATOS debacle happened at all.

The relevance of these Westminster policies to independence is that many in Scotland don't feel that their votes have enough impact on who gets to run the UK. They're only 8% of the UK population, they have 56(?) seats in parliament out of 350-odd, so even if they all vote for one party, their voice is drowned out by the vastly more populous England.

Personally I think that's an argument for more devolution, and separation of the English administration from that of the UK (preferably by regions rather than a monolithic English Parliament), but that's not what's on offer.

As for the further splitting of Scotland - that actually seems quite likely in the event of a Yes vote. The Shetlands and Orkneys have said already that they prefer to be ruled by Westminster than the Central Belt, and are likely to push for substantial self-determination. They will certainly want control of their own oil fields, which are substantial, and that would depth-charge the SNPs economic projections.
Reply With Quote
  #330  
Old 09.09.2014, 14:04
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,583
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,610 Times in 6,342 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
No, the Bedroom Tax has definitely hit Scotland too - pensions and benefits aren't devolved. I'm not sure about NHS Scotland tbh. People are pissed off that the ATOS debacle happened at all.

The relevance of these Westminster policies to independence is that many in Scotland don't feel that their votes have enough impact on who gets to run the UK. They're only 8% of the UK population, they have 56(?) seats in parliament out of 350-odd, so even if they all vote for one party, their voice is drowned out by the vastly more populous England.

Personally I think that's an argument for more devolution, and separation of the English administration from that of the UK (preferably by regions rather than a monolithic English Parliament), but that's not what's on offer.

As for the further splitting of Scotland - that actually seems quite likely in the event of a Yes vote. The Shetlands and Orkneys have said already that they prefer to be ruled by Westminster than the Central Belt, and are likely to push for substantial self-determination. They will certainly want control of their own oil fields, which are substantial, and that would depth-charge the SNPs economic projections.
About " They're only 8% of the UK population, they have 56(?) seats in parliament out of 350-odd, so even if they all vote for one party, their voice is drowned out by the vastly more populous England."

So they want to join the EU instead where they will have 0.1% of the population?

About "the Bedroom Tax has definitely hit Scotland too" From the SNP web site "The Scottish Government has already provided funding to protect those hit by the tax in Scotland."

About "I'm not sure about NHS Scotland"
From the SNP web site
"The SNP Government has repeatedly committed to keeping Scotland’s NHS in the public sector"
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #331  
Old 09.09.2014, 14:18
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,187
Groaned at 113 Times in 101 Posts
Thanked 9,824 Times in 4,138 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the SNP stated it is aiming for a 100% renewable energy policy? Yet they are counting on the proceeds of oil and natural gas as a source of income. Hypocritical, much?
Well, if it's theirs, its renewable

More seriously, no it isn't. Income from exports and usage now (oil), and targetting renewable energy for the future (given the declining production) with phasing-in of new green sources is a sensible approach. You need something to fund the future as the end of the day. I suggest wind-turbines - there'll be a lot of hot air produced around Holyrood come 19th Sep... should be able to make use of that, surely? Start as you mean to go on and all that.
Reply With Quote
  #332  
Old 09.09.2014, 14:31
ratbag's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 466
Groaned at 21 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 374 Times in 203 Posts
ratbag is considered knowledgeableratbag is considered knowledgeableratbag is considered knowledgeable
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

PMQs cancelled as party leaders head to Scotland



Reply With Quote
  #333  
Old 09.09.2014, 14:37
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 16,555
Groaned at 1,063 Times in 822 Posts
Thanked 44,086 Times in 13,632 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
Yup.

And their desire to be elsewhere at any price might be symptomatic of your, and the Tory establishments, obvious contempt for the Scots

I think you'll find that the Tories were on the other side at the battle of Culloden.


But don't let actual history get in the way of your frothy mouthed nationalistic ranting.
Reply With Quote
  #334  
Old 09.09.2014, 14:38
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,187
Groaned at 113 Times in 101 Posts
Thanked 9,824 Times in 4,138 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Why is the poll closed?
Reply With Quote
  #335  
Old 09.09.2014, 14:43
StirB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,410
Groaned at 65 Times in 56 Posts
Thanked 3,349 Times in 1,437 Posts
StirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the SNP stated it is aiming for a 100% renewable energy policy? Yet they are counting on the proceeds of oil and natural gas as a source of income. Hypocritical, much?
I don't think anyone stated they would go 100% the day independence is declared

Renewables are a front loaded investment, so it makes all the sense in the world to use oil revenues to start (well continue, we already have a decent amount) building the infrastructure. Surely this is just common sense?

In fact, I am sure the idea would really be to generate more than 100% energy and sell some, as we have abundant energy generation possibilities (positive spin on it is always windy and wet ).
Reply With Quote
  #336  
Old 09.09.2014, 14:44
StirB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,410
Groaned at 65 Times in 56 Posts
Thanked 3,349 Times in 1,437 Posts
StirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
Why is the poll closed?
No people were getting worried about the landslide on its way
Reply With Quote
  #337  
Old 09.09.2014, 15:00
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ZH
Posts: 5,069
Groaned at 62 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,526 Posts
SOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

No real surprise, DC would probably be pushed to resign if the 'Yes' vote won.
Bonus!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank SOBEIT for this useful post:
  #338  
Old 09.09.2014, 15:24
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Formerly in Neuchatel
Posts: 2,577
Groaned at 224 Times in 155 Posts
Thanked 4,501 Times in 1,747 Posts
porsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

The No campaign is suffering from some very unattractive desperation at the moment.

I'm still confident No will triumph.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank porsch1909 for this useful post:
  #339  
Old 09.09.2014, 15:26
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,583
Groaned at 249 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 11,610 Times in 6,342 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
I don't think anyone stated they would go 100% the day independence is declared

Renewables are a front loaded investment, so it makes all the sense in the world to use oil revenues to start (well continue, we already have a decent amount) building the infrastructure. Surely this is just common sense?

In fact, I am sure the idea would really be to generate more than 100% energy and sell some, as we have abundant energy generation possibilities (positive spin on it is always windy and wet ).
Except that green source energy is always more expensive than traditional so who would buy it? Unless it was sold at a loss?
Reply With Quote
  #340  
Old 09.09.2014, 15:27
lucy_who's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 642
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,002 Times in 384 Posts
lucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
About " They're only 8% of the UK population, they have 56(?) seats in parliament out of 350-odd, so even if they all vote for one party, their voice is drowned out by the vastly more populous England."

So they want to join the EU instead where they will have 0.1% of the population?

About "the Bedroom Tax has definitely hit Scotland too" From the SNP web site "The Scottish Government has already provided funding to protect those hit by the tax in Scotland."

About "I'm not sure about NHS Scotland"
From the SNP web site
"The SNP Government has repeatedly committed to keeping Scotland’s NHS in the public sector"
I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make with the EU/Westminster thing. Scotland are currently in the EU. In the unlikely event that they're allowed to stay in the EU, they'll have a slightly enhanced position. Ordinary people won't see much difference on the ground as a result of continued EU membership.

What they will see is a government that they voted for, rather than one they had minority say in, and it will be more accountable to the people of Scotland. As I said up thread, I don't think that will actually deliver the utopia that some in the Yes camp are predicting, but it will at least be the government they voted for, rather than the government that England voted for.

There are, in my opinion, an awful lot of downsides to independence, and it's not the option I'd choose if I had a vote, but I can see the appeal. I fully expect that a Yes vote will spark calls for more regional government in England too, as the less-populous and less-prosperous regions are sick of being dominated by the South East.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Scottish Independence.... ross. International affairs/politics 86 04.05.2013 10:22
A Scottish Cultural Evening and Scottish Whisky Tasting in Basel Dec 4th Suzele Commercial events 7 30.10.2009 21:34
Voting for Australians NicM International affairs/politics 6 29.05.2007 15:32


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0