Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
View Poll Results: Would you favour Scotland opting for indepence from UK
YES........ go for it 31 50.00%
NO.......... hang on for dear life 31 50.00%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #501  
Old 17.09.2014, 04:12
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Engelberg
Posts: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
libertatemalba has no particular reputation at present
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Media coverage has been totally one sided in supporting the anti-independence rhetoric. It's a miracle that the pro-freedom movement is running neck and neck in the polls considering this.

19 of the 21 national newspapers sold in Scotland are openly against independence plus the state broadcaster the BBC has been acting as little more than a muppet for the views of the London regime.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...nd-journalists

Great to see veteran Scottish politician Jim Sillars standing up to the BBC.

http://youtu.be/8XsT66RB7-g
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank libertatemalba for this useful post:
  #502  
Old 17.09.2014, 06:59
Sbrinz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,918
Groaned at 590 Times in 377 Posts
Thanked 11,539 Times in 5,936 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Perhaps the media listen to people, that is their job isn't it, and report what they hear? That IS their job isn't it? Maybe that is why the media are against the SNP? Wake up Scotland, you are being lead astray by a bunch of clever politicians (liars)!

I looked up Salmomds background, and read he was 7 years at the RBS bank. Now that explains a lot doesn't it, and half of Scotland want to follow him? I am always reading that Scottish education was second to none! Salmond is an oil economist, so it is very surprising that he states the official oil reserves are out by 60%. Does he know more than oil experts that actually work in the industry, or is he deluding everyone? All I see are facts from the No side, and insults and promises from the pro-independence, Yes side.

And the big supporters that won £165,000,000 on the lottery are giving away £500,000 - Very mean in my view, or they don't want to waste money?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Sbrinz for this useful post:
  #503  
Old 17.09.2014, 08:49
StirB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,406
Groaned at 62 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 3,319 Times in 1,418 Posts
StirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
You do know that Hadrians Wall is entirely in England, right?
You do know what a joke is, right? The bimillenial remuralisation of a defunct Roman structure isn't actually that high on my list of priorities
Reply With Quote
  #504  
Old 17.09.2014, 09:50
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 6,838
Groaned at 334 Times in 273 Posts
Thanked 11,279 Times in 4,541 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

you have no idea what you're voting yes to, you're voting yes to a guy who says he'll work it all out and negotiate AFTER you vote yes, a guy who is a proved bender of the truth.

Now if the scottish people are ok with that then they truly deserve the gov they end up with.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bigblue2 for this useful post:
  #505  
Old 17.09.2014, 10:04
StirB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,406
Groaned at 62 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 3,319 Times in 1,418 Posts
StirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
you have no idea what you're voting yes to, you're voting yes to a guy who says he'll work it all out and negotiate AFTER you vote yes, a guy who is a proved bender of the truth.

Now if the scottish people are ok with that then they truly deserve the gov they end up with.
We know exactly what we are voting YES to. The ability to self govern and determine our own future.

In the last 10 years, there have been plenty of countries in Europe who have had civil wars for independence and emerged out of the other side, with only a fraction of Scotland's resources.

Will it be all sweetness and light in utopic iScotland, of course not, don't be daft, there is still a world crisis afoot.

You realise there is no other option but to negotiate after the vote, as Westminister is clearly not going to weaken their hand by admitting that they will sit down and talk. They will though, they have to.

Can you find me any politician on the NO side who isn't a proven bender of the truth incidentally? No, that is all politicians' MO, but at least in iScotland we'll actually be able to choose the liars we want!

Last edited by StirB; 17.09.2014 at 10:32.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank StirB for this useful post:
  #506  
Old 17.09.2014, 10:45
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 6,838
Groaned at 334 Times in 273 Posts
Thanked 11,279 Times in 4,541 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

but having already voted yes scotlands negotiating power is neutralised, westminster don't have to budge an inch, you'll be at the total mercy of a bunch of people you've spent the last couple of years pissing off and insulting, surly you must see this?? Scotland will be in a far worse situation for many years after a yes vote, everything you currently get for 'free' will be charged for, which no doubt will just so happen to equal the amount of tax money england lose.
Reply With Quote
  #507  
Old 17.09.2014, 10:57
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 3,009
Groaned at 95 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 4,056 Times in 1,972 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
Leaving Germany out of the equation because they had enough assets to weather the Euro crisis, please name one country in Europe that is in better shape than the UK?

Answer; Norway, not in the EU, not in the Euro, invested it's oil profits in the national pension fund.
Austria
Netherlands
Luxembourg
Denmark
Sweden
Finland

6 enough?
Reply With Quote
  #508  
Old 17.09.2014, 11:02
lewton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Hamburg, Deutschland
Posts: 689
Groaned at 32 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 655 Times in 374 Posts
lewton has made some interesting contributions
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
Because Ireland is closest to Scotland, in culture and in size, and King Salmond thought he could use the Euro as the Scottish currency.

Ireland's problems were exacerbated by copying some US shenanigans. A bank would borrow, say €100 million, from the central bank, then lend out maybe €200 million to customers, hoping for a fat profit. All over Ireland are the visible results. Builders took loans and built at their risk, small estates of houses, about 20 to 30, in a field, near a town. After the Euro crisis the Bank called in the loans and the builders were left with half finished houses and no money to complete them. The banks were left with bad debts! All over southern Ireland are these estates, without windows and doors, but usually with 4 walls and a roof. Nobody wants to live there with no neighbours and the ugly buildings around them, so they cannot be sold. In some places these half finished houses are being demolished. (I don't know why, or who is paying)
.
So we all agree that Ireland's problems have nothing to do with the euro but with the fact that it didn't keep an eye on its banking sector?


Greece, Spain, Portugal, and probably Italy would be much better off outside the euro because their economies are not competitive at all.
Ireland had a very efficient government and a very competitive private sector. It was the banking sector that brought the country almost bankrupt.
I have no evidence that this would not have been the case if they didn't use the euro.

Has anybody noticed how good Ireland has been doing lately?
I think they're still using the euro, right?
So stop blaming the euro please.


Back to Scotland, I think that the euro would be an excellent choice for them but it won't be offered anyway.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank lewton for this useful post:
  #509  
Old 17.09.2014, 11:12
StirB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,406
Groaned at 62 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 3,319 Times in 1,418 Posts
StirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
but having already voted yes scotlands negotiating power is neutralised, westminster don't have to budge an inch, you'll be at the total mercy of a bunch of people you've spent the last couple of years pissing off and insulting, surly you must see this?? Scotland will be in a far worse situation for many years after a yes vote, everything you currently get for 'free' will be charged for, which no doubt will just so happen to equal the amount of tax money england lose.
That would be true if the UK didn't have a gigantic debt that needs to be paid off, or if Scotland didn't have a decent chunk of oil. UK need us to take 'our share' of the debt, so their negotiating point is pretty weak.

Scotland currently has 8.5% of the UK population, but receives only 7.5% of the budget, so you can see we are currently shortchanged. We are currently a net loser.
Reply With Quote
  #510  
Old 17.09.2014, 11:50
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 8,928
Groaned at 115 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 15,949 Times in 5,625 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Some common sense from David Sole, Scottish Grand Slam winning captain.
Reply With Quote
  #511  
Old 17.09.2014, 12:41
lucy_who's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 642
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,002 Times in 384 Posts
lucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
You do know what a joke is, right? The bimillenial remuralisation of a defunct Roman structure isn't actually that high on my list of priorities
Yes. Hence the rest of my post that you didn't quote. So yourself
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank lucy_who for this useful post:
  #512  
Old 17.09.2014, 12:52
lucy_who's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 642
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,002 Times in 384 Posts
lucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond reputelucy_who has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
That would be true if the UK didn't have a gigantic debt that needs to be paid off, or if Scotland didn't have a decent chunk of oil. UK need us to take 'our share' of the debt, so their negotiating point is pretty weak.

Scotland currently has 8.5% of the UK population, but receives only 7.5% of the budget, so you can see we are currently shortchanged. We are currently a net loser.
Total toss. The UK would very much like an independent Scotland to take on it's share of the debt, but not at the cost of allowing a foreign state a say in domestic monetary policy.

If Scotland default on their share of the debt, the rUK will be worse off, but Scotland will have depth-charged it's own economy before it even gets started, because it will find it extremely difficult, and very expensive, to borrow on the international markets.

Meanwhile, Spain has clearly reiterated it's long-held position that it will not allow Scotland fast-track access to the EU, and an independent Scotland will therefore need to apply in the normal way. Which means meeting economic stability criteria. Which means having their own central bank. So currency union is actually not in the Scots best long-term interests either.

This is not "negativity", or "English bullying", it's the facts of a globalised economy and they won't go away because "hope". I'm not even opposed to Scottish independence, in principle - but the Scots are currently being sold a pig-in-a-poke by a Yes campaign that basically thinks everything will magically be perfect once we get the bastard English out.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank lucy_who for this useful post:
  #513  
Old 17.09.2014, 12:53
Sbrinz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,918
Groaned at 590 Times in 377 Posts
Thanked 11,539 Times in 5,936 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

On breakfast TV was the story about a female hairdresser cutting a man's hair in Scotland. She asked him how he will vote tomorrow, and when he answered 'No', she refused to work on him any longer.

Is that the level Scotland has sunk to? After King Salmond said he would default on any loan if it suited him, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.
Reply With Quote
  #514  
Old 17.09.2014, 13:01
Sbrinz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,918
Groaned at 590 Times in 377 Posts
Thanked 11,539 Times in 5,936 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
That would be true if the UK didn't have a gigantic debt that needs to be paid off, or if Scotland didn't have a decent chunk of oil. UK need us to take 'our share' of the debt, so their negotiating point is pretty weak.

Scotland currently has 8.5% of the UK population, but receives only 7.5% of the budget, so you can see we are currently shortchanged. We are currently a net loser.
I won't argue with your figures, but then, you are agreed to break a 300 year old alliance, created by a Scottish King James, for just one per cent advantage? An incredibly short sighted idea!

You haven't mentioned the enormous gas supplies that are under England have you?
Reply With Quote
  #515  
Old 17.09.2014, 13:42
lewton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Hamburg, Deutschland
Posts: 689
Groaned at 32 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 655 Times in 374 Posts
lewton has made some interesting contributions
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Do you know if the European countries (e.g. Spain that has an increased interest in the matter) can also veto Scotland's membership to EEA or EFTA?

I mean, we can debate about whether it is good or not for Scotland to adopt the British pound, the euro or create its own currency.
We may also debate about whether it is good or not for Scotland to join the EU.

But we cannot debate about whether it is good or not for Scotland to be able to trade with Europe as a member of the common market, at least as much as Switzerland (which is a member of EFTA but not of EEA).
So I would like to know if London or Madrid can out of spite deny Scotland even this access to the European market.
Reply With Quote
  #516  
Old 17.09.2014, 14:01
StirB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,406
Groaned at 62 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 3,319 Times in 1,418 Posts
StirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
I won't argue with your figures, but then, you are agreed to break a 300 year old alliance, created by a Scottish King James, for just one per cent advantage? An incredibly short sighted idea!
Yes, that is totally what I've been saying all the time, aaargh, read man! It isn't about the money, it is about self-determination. I would hope that the noble spirit of people would actually say, you know what, if I suffer 10 years or 20 years, but my children have it better, I'm in.

My %age differentials were a counter argument to the endless "Scottish scroungers take more out of the UK than they put in, yada yada" or "Scotland will go bankrupt, LOL" arguments. If we subsidise free health/old age care, prescriptions, university education from our undercooked budget, so can England, don't have a go at Scotland for spending money in this way, have a go at your local MP!

Quote:
View Post
You haven't mentioned the enormous gas supplies that are under England have you?
As we (almost) say in Scotland, "Get tae frack!".
Reply With Quote
  #517  
Old 17.09.2014, 14:08
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 8,564
Groaned at 246 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 11,556 Times in 6,310 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
We know exactly what we are voting YES to. The ability to self govern and determine our own future.

In the last 10 years, there have been plenty of countries in Europe who have had civil wars for independence and emerged out of the other side, with only a fraction of Scotland's resources.

Will it be all sweetness and light in utopic iScotland, of course not, don't be daft, there is still a world crisis afoot.

You realise there is no other option but to negotiate after the vote, as Westminister is clearly not going to weaken their hand by admitting that they will sit down and talk. They will though, they have to.

Can you find me any politician on the NO side who isn't a proven bender of the truth incidentally? No, that is all politicians' MO, but at least in iScotland we'll actually be able to choose the liars we want!
About "The ability to self govern and determine our own future." But I thought you were planning to join the EU?
Reply With Quote
  #518  
Old 17.09.2014, 14:19
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 8,928
Groaned at 115 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 15,949 Times in 5,625 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
About "The ability to self govern and determine our own future." But I thought you were planning to join the EU?
Spain won't let them .
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank PaddyG for this useful post:
  #519  
Old 17.09.2014, 14:26
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,756
Groaned at 498 Times in 304 Posts
Thanked 7,890 Times in 3,093 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
About "The ability to self govern and determine our own future." But I thought you were planning to join the EU?
Exactly, this is what I don't get about the argument that "Scotland are fed up of being rules by the Westminster elite". If Scotland goes independent they'll have a twat in Holyrood making the decisions instead of a twat in Westminster. It certainly will be a far cry from the direct democracy they're making it out to be. Politicians are always going to be unpopular no matter where they're based.

This article has some interesting points in how the Yes campaign has conducted itself. I do wonder if this could end up developing into a similar situation as in Northern Ireland.

http://www.itv.com/news/2014-09-16/i...sh-referendum/
Reply With Quote
  #520  
Old 17.09.2014, 14:29
StirB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,406
Groaned at 62 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 3,319 Times in 1,418 Posts
StirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Quote:
View Post
About "The ability to self govern and determine our own future." But I thought you were planning to join the EU?
Well, see here, this is the nub of it.

If we indeed did decide to try to join the EU, that would be our democratic choice, made by politicians we elected (or by separate referendum, whichever).

If you as a unionist believe that being part of a union is better for Scotland, how could you argue against iScotland joining an even bigger union than the UK, surely that must be better, right?
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Scottish Independence.... ross. International affairs/politics 86 04.05.2013 10:22
A Scottish Cultural Evening and Scottish Whisky Tasting in Basel Dec 4th Suzele Commercial events 7 30.10.2009 21:34
Voting for Australians NicM International affairs/politics 6 29.05.2007 15:32


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:24.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0