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View Poll Results: Would you favour Scotland opting for indepence from UK
YES........ go for it 31 50.00%
NO.......... hang on for dear life 31 50.00%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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  #521  
Old 17.09.2014, 14:40
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

I quite like the irony that with all the thousands upon thousands (insert Daily Mailesque figure here) of people banging on the doors wanting to get in, roughly half of Scotland wants to get *out*
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  #522  
Old 17.09.2014, 14:49
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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Well, see here, this is the nub of it.

If we indeed did decide to try to join the EU, that would be our democratic choice, made by politicians we elected (or by separate referendum, whichever).

If you as a unionist believe that being part of a union is better for Scotland, how could you argue against iScotland joining an even bigger union than the UK, surely that must be better, right?
So you don't want to self govern if you join a bigger union? So what are you voting for again?
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  #523  
Old 17.09.2014, 14:50
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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Total toss. The UK would very much like an independent Scotland to take on it's share of the debt, but not at the cost of allowing a foreign state a say in domestic monetary policy.

If Scotland default on their share of the debt, the rUK will be worse off, but Scotland will have depth-charged it's own economy before it even gets started, because it will find it extremely difficult, and very expensive, to borrow on the international markets.

......
Couldn't agree more, this argument about forcing a currency union at the point of a default is an utter joke but it seems to be spreading as a sound and reasoned argument. Default on the debt, get a junk rating, lose any chance of investment.

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  #524  
Old 17.09.2014, 14:52
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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So you don't want to self govern if you join a bigger union? So what are you voting for again?
I don't mean to be rude Marton, I don't know if English is your first language, but there is a subtle difference between self-governing and self-determination.

We could, in theory, decide to devolve some decisionmaking to Brussels. Then we would no longer be entirely self-governing. The fact that we made that decision would still be self determination though.
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  #525  
Old 17.09.2014, 14:53
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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I quite like the irony that with all the thousands upon thousands (insert Daily Mailesque figure here) of people banging on the doors wanting to get in, roughly half of Scotland wants to get *out*
In the meantime ...

The Seriously Nasty Party: With one day to go, damning evidence of the bullying intimidation of voters by Scots nationalists (just ask Miliband)
- Pro-union voters have endured stone-throwing and been called traitors
- Many are now said to be too scared to show their support of a No vote
- Ed Miliband was forced to abandon visit to Edinburgh shopping centre

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3DZaVseo1
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  #526  
Old 17.09.2014, 14:56
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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I quite like the irony that with all the thousands upon thousands (insert Daily Mailesque figure here) of people banging on the doors wanting to get in, roughly half of Scotland wants to get *out*
No, the irony is that by going independent they support the Conservatives who will be in Westminster for ever.
Plus if the SNP fail to deliver their promises then likely Labour will win any future election and Scotland will be governed by the same Labour politicians who once ruled from Westminster.
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  #527  
Old 17.09.2014, 15:01
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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Couldn't agree more, this argument about forcing a currency union at the point of a default is an utter joke but it seems to be spreading as a sound and reasoned argument. Default on the debt, get a junk rating, lose any chance of investment.
To be fair, Scotland wouldn't be defaulting on anything. It would be an entirely separate entity with none of the liabilites (or assets) of rUK.

Having an entirely neutral balance sheet may not be viewed as a bad thing when it comes to looking for investment for Govt Bonds. Most 1st world countries have debts ranging anywhere from 0-120% of GDP, so I don't think we'd have too much of an issue attracting investment.
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  #528  
Old 17.09.2014, 15:02
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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I don't mean to be rude Marton, I don't know if English is your first language, but there is a subtle difference between self-governing and self-determination.

We could, in theory, decide to devolve some decisionmaking to Brussels. Then we would no longer be entirely self-governing. The fact that we made that decision would still be self determination though.
So you would take a long diversionary route to get back to the same position you are in today where ever more decisions are made in Brussels; from the power of vacuum cleaners to the shape of bananas.

You could say the cow walking down the slaughter house chute is exhibiting self determination - with its eyes closed to the fact its options are somewhat limited.
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  #529  
Old 17.09.2014, 15:03
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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No, the irony is that by going independent they support the Conservatives who will be in Westminster for ever.
Another fallacy. As recently as 2005, Tony Blair won a majority of seats without the inclusion of Scotland's votes.
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  #530  
Old 17.09.2014, 15:05
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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So you would take a long diversionary route to get back to the same position you are in today...
What I would do is irrelevant, I neither live there nor get a vote (like 99% of people on here). If it is the will of the people, then so be it.
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  #531  
Old 17.09.2014, 15:06
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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To be fair, Scotland wouldn't be defaulting on anything. It would be an entirely separate entity with none of the liabilites (or assets) of rUK.

Having an entirely neutral balance sheet may not be viewed as a bad thing when it comes to looking for investment for Govt Bonds. Most 1st world countries have debts ranging anywhere from 0-120% of GDP, so I don't think we'd have too much of an issue attracting investment.
Good luck telling the markets that.
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  #532  
Old 17.09.2014, 15:09
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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To be fair, Scotland wouldn't be defaulting on anything. It would be an entirely separate entity with none of the liabilites (or assets) of rUK.

Having an entirely neutral balance sheet may not be viewed as a bad thing when it comes to looking for investment for Govt Bonds. Most 1st world countries have debts ranging anywhere from 0-120% of GDP, so I don't think we'd have too much of an issue attracting investment.
About "It would be an entirely separate entity with none of the liabilites (or assets) of rUK".

John Swinney has published lists of UK Govt. Assets he wants to transfer to Scotland, you do not agree?
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  #533  
Old 17.09.2014, 15:14
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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About "It would be an entirely separate entity with none of the liabilites (or assets) of rUK".

John Swinney has published lists of UK Govt. Assets he wants to transfer to Scotland, you do not agree?
Yes, ideally, if everyone is being sensible and working towards the common goal of what is best for rUK and iScotland, then Scotland should accept its share of assets and debts alike. This is definitely Plan A.
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  #534  
Old 17.09.2014, 15:25
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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What I would do is irrelevant, I neither live there nor get a vote (like 99% of people on here). If it is the will of the people, then so be it.
Talking about native English I was using "you" in the indefinite pronoun or generic form
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  #535  
Old 17.09.2014, 15:36
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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Talking about native English I was using "you" in the indefinite pronoun or generic form
As I said before, I wasn't having a go, I have no idea where you are from and thought Marton was possibly of Hungarian extraction.

Even the generic "you" isn't really covering me at the moment since I don't live there and cannot vote.

As a part of the greater Scottish diaspora, my (irrelevant!) preferred choices would be to form a new Scottish currency and remain outside of the EU with bilateral agreements. However, I realise this is not currently the direction the SNP wish to go. There is an election for the Scottish parliament in 2016 though, so this is all changeable.
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  #536  
Old 17.09.2014, 15:40
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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To be fair, Scotland wouldn't be defaulting on anything. It would be an entirely separate entity with none of the liabilites (or assets) of rUK.

Having an entirely neutral balance sheet may not be viewed as a bad thing when it comes to looking for investment for Govt Bonds. Most 1st world countries have debts ranging anywhere from 0-120% of GDP, so I don't think we'd have too much of an issue attracting investment.
a fantasy, like saying a bankrupt actually has a better chance of getting a mortgage because he is debt free. The only economist I've read saying anything other than 'disaster' is Eck himself.
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  #537  
Old 17.09.2014, 16:11
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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a fantasy, like saying a bankrupt actually has a better chance of getting a mortgage because he is debt free. The only economist I've read saying anything other than 'disaster' is Eck himself.
I think it would be fairer to compare it to a divorce where one party gets everything and the other has to start fresh.

Of course, even in the event of this scenario, Scotland will of course have its own assets, just none of the shared UK assets. Perhaps we can sell George Galloway to be melted down for glue.
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  #538  
Old 17.09.2014, 17:57
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

Scotland’s head of police comments in relation to allegations of intimidation during the campaign for Scottish independence:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-...itics-29235197
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  #539  
Old 17.09.2014, 18:01
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

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Scotland’s head of police comments in relation to allegations of intimidation during the campaign for Scottish independence:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-...itics-29235197
From the oh-so-biased BBC, no less

Apparently pubs can stay Scotland open all night tomorrow. (I thought many were anyway?) Yep, that'll be a great idea....
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  #540  
Old 17.09.2014, 18:46
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Re: Voting for Scottish Independence?

What about all those people who moved abroad but didn't deregister and still got a polling card in the post at their parent's place and if they voted it would technically be voter fraud?

Not naming names....
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