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  #561  
Old 14.03.2018, 17:59
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

Why do you bother coming here then if you can’t answer questions about your own stats?
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  #562  
Old 14.03.2018, 18:02
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Why do you bother coming here then if you can’t answer questions about your own stats?
Troll 2/10
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  #563  
Old 14.03.2018, 18:16
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

you can’t answer a question about your own stats so you resort to ad hominems and call me a troll.
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  #564  
Old 15.03.2018, 07:21
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

We cannot cure an illness before we have understood it. It is therefore important to be careful and nuanced. But I empathise with the frustration of those whose blood will boil on seeing those words. Like terrorism, this is a phenomenon that would not have existed on a comparable scale if not for the unprecedented top-down cosmopolitanism encouraged by the same political and media classes who now tactfully look the other way.

Source
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  #565  
Old 15.03.2018, 10:55
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

That's a well written piece. I remember Ann Cryer being threatened when she tried to expose this... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ared-ann-cryer
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  #566  
Old 15.03.2018, 10:58
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

Another well written piece from a lady that I often agree with, but can also totally disagre with... http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...n-2180318.html
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  #567  
Old 15.03.2018, 11:23
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

Jack straw highlighted this in 2011. Look at the reaction he got. Political Correctness is cancer.

The best response it the one from the head of children's charity Barnardo's, sounds like many of the posts on here. Goes to show that nothing has been learned in the last 7 years.

Jack Straw criticised for 'easy meat' comments on abuse
White girls seen as 'easy meat' by Pakistani rapists, says Jack Straw
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Old 15.03.2018, 12:27
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Jack straw highlighted this in 2011. Look at the reaction he got. Political Correctness is cancer.
"But Political Correctness is just another way of saying politeness"
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Old 15.03.2018, 12:52
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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"But Political Correctness is just another way of saying politeness"
Bollocks!
It's a bunch of namby pamby manufactured 'rules' for people who don't have the good manners they were born with.
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  #570  
Old 15.03.2018, 13:54
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Jack straw highlighted this in 2011. Look at the reaction he got. Political Correctness is cancer.

The best response it the one from the head of children's charity Barnardo's, sounds like many of the posts on here. Goes to show that nothing has been learned in the last 7 years.

Jack Straw criticised for 'easy meat' comments on abuse
White girls seen as 'easy meat' by Pakistani rapists, says Jack Straw
Wasn't the police supposed to check out all those complaints, for years and years, to take all those cases that were reported - seriously? Who is supposed to do the police's job? The vigilantes? The whatever "community" those scumbags "belong to" - guess what, their passports are the same for every British citizen, there are no special passports for Pakistani British. Creating the divide, neither to positively discriminate, nor to demonise, will never help.
You also said in a previous post that a lot of these girls come from the British white underclass that is forming, with no reliable families to count on, "liberal" teachers at school and in general, a poor social network, the children of the streets.. The victims are also a part of these atrocities, why not take everything into consideration and establish adequate steps to inform, prevent, not only deal with the aftermaths..
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  #571  
Old 15.03.2018, 14:06
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Wasn't the police supposed to check out all those complaints, for years and years, to take all those cases that were reported - seriously? Who is supposed to do the police's job? The vigilantes? The whatever "community" those scumbags "belong to" - guess what, their passports are the same for every British citizen, there are no special passports for Pakistani British. Creating the divide, neither to positively discriminate, nor to demonise, will never help.
You also said in a previous post that a lot of these girls come from the British white underclass that is forming, with no reliable families to count on, "liberal" teachers at school and in general, a poor social network, the children of the streets.. The victims are also a part of these atrocities, why not take everything into consideration and establish adequate steps to inform, prevent, not only deal with the aftermaths..
Preventive measurements should not only be aimed at the victims, but also at the perpetrators, and for the last it is important to know and acknowledge who they are.
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  #572  
Old 15.03.2018, 14:12
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Wasn't the police supposed to check out all those complaints, for years and years, to take all those cases that were reported - seriously? Who is supposed to do the police's job? The vigilantes? The whatever "community" those scumbags "belong to" - guess what, their passports are the same for every British citizen, there are no special passports for Pakistani British. Creating the divide, neither to positively discriminate, nor to demonise, will never help.
Simple question, do you think these instances of child grooming is a British Pakistani problem or not?
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  #573  
Old 15.03.2018, 14:51
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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It seems you do not understand why somebody does not have to come up with numbers about something he never said anything about (sexual abuse in general) and insist on me doing so.
The question is how big of a portion of the complete issue you're pointing at. If it covered 50% of all rapes it would clearly be hugely important. If it covered 0.001% of all rapes it would be mostly futile to address it while ignoring all the reast.

That's why MF's question is valid even though you make no statement to that end.

This article from 2017 says 264 gang members who targeted non-related girls as part of a gang since 2005 (so probably 2005-2016, 22 perpetrators annually), 84% of which are of Asian origin (mostly Pakistani) (some 7.5% of UK's population are Asians). 17% were white (obvious rounding error).

This ignores the other type of gang sex crime: pedophile rings, they consist 100% of whites. Using a similarly limited scope as you do, one could argue that Asians are no problem at all when it comes to sex crimes because all are committed by whites.

Absurdities aside:
To put that a bit into perspective, 25 of 31 police forces identified 2120 lone perpetrators involved in either suspected or confirmed cases of non-familial child sex abuse in 2012 alone. Thus the number of perpetrators who are part of a grooming gang are 1% of all child sex abuse perpetrators.

All of the above exclude cases in a familal environment.

The number of victims above is not mentioned, but it seems safe to say it pales in comparison to the 200'000 45'100 reported rapes happening in the UK annually. Mind, that's rapes only, all other types of sexual offenses are ignored. The race of these perpetrators is unknown, it seems the statistics don't contain that information.

As fatal as the crimes committed by grooming gangs are, it would be stupid to focus on them, especially if it meant ignoring both the small and the big elephant in the room.

ETA:
200k rapes seems awfully high. Will come back on that.

ETA2:
45'100 cases of rape reported to the police 2016/17. Some estimate that only one case in seven is reported, that may be the reason for the initial 200k above. Until 2008/09 12-14k were reported annualy, followed by 16k 2012/13, 29k 2014/15, and 35k 2015/16. It seems the percentage of rapes reported is rising rapidly.

Last edited by Urs Max; 15.03.2018 at 15:20.
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  #574  
Old 15.03.2018, 15:11
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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The question is how big of a portion of the complete issue you're pointing at. If it covered 50% of all rapes it would clearly be hugely important. If it covered 0.001% of all rapes it would be mostly futile to address it while ignoring all the reast.

That's why MF's question is valid even though you make no statement to that end.
The question might be valid, but demanding an answer ain't and asking me why I even am in this topic since I do not want to answer that question is just dumb and arrogant. If somebody want to bring in more data to a topic they are free to do so, demanding others to do this is lazy, even the more while I just responded on the subject.
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As fatal as the crimes committed by grooming gangs are, it would be stupid to focus on them, especially if it meant ignoring both the small and the big elephant in the room.
Grooming gangs are one of many forms of sexual abuse which like other forms needs it own attention when aiming towards prevention and prosecution. I said nowhere that we should focus only on them, but this topic is about grooming gangs as was the posting I replied to.

Preventive measurements aimed towards the lone pedophiliac white average middleclass Joe, are not to be expected to be as effective towards a Pakistani muslim as it is to be expected the other way around, both need their own methods. And to be effective in preventing sexual crimes it is important to A. recognise the different forms, and B. Establish and recognise a profile of the perpetrators. So when talking about sexual grooming gangs it is important to recognise that Pakistani muslims (even tho religion might have nothing to do with it) are the main offending group and need special attention. And their victims are not being helped by people who keep pointing in other directions.
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  #575  
Old 15.03.2018, 15:14
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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Simple question, do you think these instances of child grooming is a British Pakistani problem or not?
OK, in short and without pretending I'm very knowledgeable - I've heard and read something about this from various sources and I won't deny there seems to be a bit of a cultural problem there, in the sense that some acts are not seen in such a bad light by certain members of the larger groups if done outside their groups i.e. abusing white girls. However, things are more complicated than that as not all victims are white, and, as it has been already proved - quite a lot of British white perpetrators enjoyed this (probably very lucrative) scheme, even if they didn't organise it. And apparently there was no serious attempt to put an end to it, as most victims were....you guess it - rather poor, undefended. Living in (economically) unstable environments, many a time in close proximity with the perpetrators. I would conclude is a combination of factors - a ghetto or actually - poverty problem, and to some extent - a cultural one. But most of all - the unresponsiveness of the police and authorities - child or youth protection etc.
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  #576  
Old 15.03.2018, 15:26
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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So when talking about sexual grooming gangs it is important to recognise that Pakistani muslims (even tho religion might have nothing to do with it) are the main offending group and need special attention.
How do you know they're muslims? I'd agree that it's likely the case but you mentioned establishing a perpetrator profile (knowing rather than speculating) so certainly you have additional information?
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  #577  
Old 15.03.2018, 15:34
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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How do you know they're muslims? I'd agree that it's likely the case but you mentioned establishing a perpetrator profile (knowing rather than speculating) so certainly you have additional information?
Try post 507 https://www.englishforum.ch/2921318-post507.html
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  #578  
Old 15.03.2018, 15:38
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

Muslim heritage is the same as being muslim?
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Old 15.03.2018, 16:38
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

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And their victims are not being helped by people who keep pointing in other directions.
Not the other way, further up the chain. As with any crime of exploitation, there's supply and demand. Who are the customer base? Everytime another grooming gang are brought to justice, another pops up in it's place. These lowlife scumbags are the bottom of the tree.

The juducial system needs to get tougher on this. Personally, I'd like to see minimum 30yrs with the first 5-10yrs in solitary. Probably against human rights...
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Old 15.03.2018, 16:49
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Re: Rotherham sex abuse scandal

Thank you for stating, although vaguely, that there seems to be a Problem. I imagine it took you some time to phrase it in this "violence free" style.


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OK, in short and without pretending I'm very knowledgeable - I've heard and read something about this from various sources and I won't deny there seems to be a bit of a cultural problem there, in the sense that some acts are not seen in such a bad light by certain members of the larger groups if done outside their groups i.e. abusing white girls.

Thank you also for this second part of your statement, for it is at least as important as the first.


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However, things are more complicated than that as not all victims are white, and, as it has been already proved - quite a lot of British white perpetrators enjoyed this (probably very lucrative) scheme, even if they didn't organise it. And apparently there was no serious attempt to put an end to it, as most victims were....you guess it - rather poor, undefended. Living in (economically) unstable environments, many a time in close proximity with the perpetrators. I would conclude is a combination of factors - a ghetto or actually - poverty problem, and to some extent - a cultural one. But most of all - the unresponsiveness of the police and authorities - child or youth protection etc.


To me your post is an excellent example of whats wrong in our society. We know that there is a problem within certain groups, but we don't act because
a) there is bigger underlying problem
b) the people causing the problem are part of a large ethnical (or whatever) group which is harmless or even beneficial and we don't want to offend them all.


To a) Sure there are other, even bigger problems beneath, but why just stand like a mouse before a snake and despair bcs the problem is too big, instead of taking small steps curing symptoms while trying to cure the disease
BTW: It felt horrible writing the part about curing the disease in context with foreigners, i hope you don't missunderstand me. I just didn't know a better metaphor.


and this leads to b). In order to solve a problem, even if it's a small part of a bigger issue, one needs to be able to name it whitout beeing called a racist.


If this just takes place in this forum, shit happens, kk has the opportunity to call one side libtards, and TobiasM can call the rest racists. Hope both are happy.


But unfortunately it happens in politics which influences also the police, too.
"But most of all - the unresponsiveness of the police and authorities - child or youth protection etc."
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