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Old 17.10.2014, 21:58
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Re: Islamic State

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WHY exactly did the officers abound their troops ?


The reasons are subject to speculation, but one of the reasons is that the Iraqi Air Force was NOT yet re-established


BS
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  #302  
Old 17.10.2014, 23:28
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Re: Islamic State

May he rest peace , just to be clear they are only few thousands and we are about a billion and a half Muslim so its not about Islam , its about a small percentage of psycho people who took Islam as a cover to hide their evil selves behind it .
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  #303  
Old 18.10.2014, 01:36
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Re: Islamic State

According to Zürich unterländer (sorry no link you need to be a subscriber) about 30 Swiss joined ISIS; 6 were killed and 18 came home.

Usual battle statistics are at least 2 injured for everyone killed so these figures look to be high; except if ISIS do not have good medics so the number of killed versus injured is higher than usual.
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  #304  
Old 18.10.2014, 13:05
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Re: Islamic State

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BS

NO, the IRAQI AIR FORCE, once one of the largest in the Middle East is still NOT re-started, except by some fighter planes supplied by the Russians
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  #305  
Old 18.10.2014, 13:08
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Re: Islamic State

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Why are you making constant references to the Kurdish fighters being cute and pretty?
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They impress the hell out of me. It's like a fight between the forces of good and beauty versus the forces of dark evil.
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  #306  
Old 19.10.2014, 00:24
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Re: Islamic State

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May he rest peace , just to be clear they are only few thousands and we are about a billion and a half Muslim so its not about Islam , its about a small percentage of psycho people who took Islam as a cover to hide their evil selves behind it .
Weird, I thought that Muslim brotherhood got 47% of the votes in 2012. a bit more than "a few thousands".

Welcome to the forum, btw.
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  #307  
Old 19.10.2014, 00:33
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Re: Islamic State

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Weird, I thought that Muslim brotherhood got 47% of the votes in 2012. a bit more than "a few thousands".

Welcome to the forum, btw.
Sorry, are you equating the Muslim Brotherhood to ISIL?
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  #308  
Old 19.10.2014, 00:50
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Re: Islamic State

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Sorry, are you equating the Muslim Brotherhood to ISIL?
Not Equating, comparing. Two strands of political Islam.
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Old 19.10.2014, 00:56
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Re: Islamic State

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Sorry, are you equating the Muslim Brotherhood to ISIL?
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Not Equating, comparing. Two strands of political Islam.

Pashosh hates them all the same , I mean ALL and HATE
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Old 19.10.2014, 00:59
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Re: Islamic State

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Not Equating, comparing. Two strands of political Islam.
Sure and inasmuch as all Islam is political Islam, all Judaism is political Judaism and all Christianity is political Christianity. All religious people seek to participate and influence the people and power structures of those around them, typically to favour their religions in some way. It's all on the same spectrum so let's not purposely obfuscate and confuse to equate people who behead charity workers with those who were democratically elected and, you know, don't.
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  #311  
Old 19.10.2014, 01:17
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Re: Islamic State

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Sure and inasmuch as all Islam is political Islam, all Judaism is political Judaism and all Christianity is political Christianity. All religious people seek to participate and influence the people and power structures of those around them, typically to favour their religions in some way. It's all on the same spectrum so let's not purposely obfuscate and confuse to equate people who behead charity workers with those who were democratically elected and, you know, don't.
The Muslim brotherhood enjoyed (perhaps still enjoys) vast public support in Egypt, even though (or because ?) it is a violent movement which strives to create a pre-modern Islamic state, like IS.
Both claim that "Islam is the solution" to the Muslim world's problems.
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  #312  
Old 19.10.2014, 02:42
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Re: Islamic State

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The Muslim brotherhood enjoyed (perhaps still enjoys) vast public support in Egypt,
Yup

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it is a violent movement
Sometimes but then their opposition is the military. And militaries can be pretty violent too what with their tanks and guns and whatnot.

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which strives to create a pre-modern Islamic state, like IS.
source please. Because the Muslim Brotherhood was in power for a while and you could still get a pint in Zamalek no problem.

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Both claim that "Islam is the solution" to the Muslim world's problems.
Well sure, it'd be a pretty crappy (and unique) religion if it didn't purport to solve all of life's problems. But I think their views of what Islam is are markedly different.
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  #313  
Old 19.10.2014, 04:51
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Re: Islamic State

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Weird, I thought that Muslim brotherhood got 47% of the votes in 2012. a bit more than "a few thousands".

Welcome to the forum, btw.
$


The MB of course ARE zealots but ISIS in fact is "ISIS PLUS".



Beside the point that the 47% was a protest vote against the Ancien Regime and not an endorsement




************************************************** *************************************


What both movements have in common is that they have no sympathies for the idea of Pan-Arab nationalism (a secularist ideology) but see it with a Muslim World (which EXcludes Christians and Allawites etc)
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  #314  
Old 19.10.2014, 16:14
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Re: Islamic State

ISIS and Muslim Brotherhood objectives are at the same nexus; both a totalitarian governance, radical and fundamental interpretation of Islam. The only major difference between the two is the approach. MB takes a millenial perspective of time with gradual change to their objectives, preferably through proselytizing (dawa) , while ISIS has foregone dawa and making it happen here and now through Jihad, at whatever cost and whatever sin and evil required to meet their greater objective. They are compatible, and it is quite conceivable they would use each other's gains to advance their own. I am not seeing any reason why they would oppose each other, apart from distancing themselves for the sake of public perception.

There may only be tens of thousands 'bona fide' members of ISIS, but they do have considerable support from Muslims and Islam. Some estimates say their ideology have support from 15%-30% of the 1.5 billion Muslims in the world; whether publicly, privately or tacitly. I understand ISIS fashion merchandise is readily sold in Turkey.

Its quite naive to say ISIS are not Muslims, and they do not represent Islam. When Obama, Cameron, Kerry and whatever talking head parroted that ISIS are not Muslims, and they do not represent Islam, they were only sending assurance that the Western coalition against IS is not fighting the religion of Islam, but an isolated group. But whether or not ISIS are Muslims and they are fighting for Islam, of course they are. As Reza Aslan spells in a way the least intelligent can understand:
Reza Aslan: If ISIS Says It's Muslim, Then It's Muslim

I don't really understand why we should avoid this reality, and would rather brush a layer of paint over it. I realize it is difficult to address. But naivete, not acknowledging it, means not resolving it and allowing it to continue.
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Old 20.10.2014, 02:31
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Re: Islamic State

From yesterdays Telegraph here, a short quote "A top Syrian rebel commander was shot and wounded in an apparent kidnapping attempt by the Islamic State in a Turkish city, raising questions about Ankara’s readiness to stop jihadists operating on its soil.
Abu Issa, the leader of Thuwar Raqqa, a Syrian rebel group who has been fighting the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) in the town of Kobane, was ambushed by Isil extremists in Urfa in neighbouring Turkey
."

Worth reading the whole article

Raises doubts about Turkey's strategy and direction.
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  #316  
Old 20.10.2014, 07:12
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Re: Islamic State

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ISIS and Muslim Brotherhood objectives are at the same nexus; both a totalitarian governance, radical and fundamental interpretation of Islam. The only major difference between the two is the approach. MB takes a millenial perspective of time with gradual change to their objectives, preferably through proselytizing (dawa) , while ISIS has foregone dawa and making it happen here and now through Jihad, at whatever cost and whatever sin and evil required to meet their greater objective. They are compatible, and it is quite conceivable they would use each other's gains to advance their own. I am not seeing any reason why they would oppose each other, apart from distancing themselves for the sake of public perception.

There may only be tens of thousands 'bona fide' members of ISIS, but they do have considerable support from Muslims and Islam. Some estimates say their ideology have support from 15%-30% of the 1.5 billion Muslims in the world; whether publicly, privately or tacitly. I understand ISIS fashion merchandise is readily sold in Turkey.

Its quite naive to say ISIS are not Muslims, and they do not represent Islam. When Obama, Cameron, Kerry and whatever talking head parroted that ISIS are not Muslims, and they do not represent Islam, they were only sending assurance that the Western coalition against IS is not fighting the religion of Islam, but an isolated group. But whether or not ISIS are Muslims and they are fighting for Islam, of course they are. As Reza Aslan spells in a way the least intelligent can understand:
Reza Aslan: If ISIS Says It's Muslim, Then It's Muslim

I don't really understand why we should avoid this reality, and would rather brush a layer of paint over it. I realize it is difficult to address. But naivete, not acknowledging it, means not resolving it and allowing it to continue.

Indeed. same ideology but different approach
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  #317  
Old 20.10.2014, 09:43
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Re: Islamic State

The rift between Turkey and the West is becoming more apparent. As Turkey watches Kobani wittled down, preventing resupply of the defenders, the US airdrops weapons and supplies to Kobani defenders. The level of coordination suggests there are already US and FSA agents in Kobani. This is in line with goals to ally with ground troops, and this acknowledges the Kurds as reliable partners.

ISIS strategy was to leave an exit corridor to Turkey for defeated Kurds to leave from, while Turkey stops re-entry back into Kobani. But the US is capitalizing on this as an opportunity to grind down ISIS at this front. Its one of a few places they can find ISIS. They normally blend into the population otherwise. ISIS is suffering losses in Kobani.

The question remains how far the rift between the US and Turkey will be let to widen. At some point, they will need to pull back. There are voices calling for re-evaluating Turkey's membership in NATO. When all the tactical and strategic goals have been reached, there will be a reckoning to determine where Turkey truly stands in all this.

I hope they dropped off something cute for the girls in the meantime.
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Old 20.10.2014, 10:22
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Re: Islamic State

Nothing would make me happier as a Greek than a reevaluation of Turkey's membership in NATO.
How serious a possibility do you think this is?
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Old 20.10.2014, 10:54
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Re: Islamic State

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Nothing would make me happier as a Greek than a reevaluation of Turkey's membership in NATO.
How serious a possibility do you think this is?
About as probable as Turkey becoming an EU member state

Turkey still has the geopolitical importance being close to Russia, Iran and ME. So both sides will pretend Kobane issue was just a glitch in relationships once this is over

As a Turk, I would be very happy to see Greece overcome its financial troubles and become self-sufficient. Neighbours do not benefit from each others demise
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Old 20.10.2014, 11:05
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Re: Islamic State

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Nothing would make me happier as a Greek than a reevaluation of Turkey's membership in NATO.
How serious a possibility do you think this is?
Depends on Turkey's future actions which will show how committed they are to NATO? Currently mostly taking rather than giving, they were very quick to ask for Patriot anti missile systems but when they wanted to upgrade their own systems they bought from the East,against NATO policy.

Over Syria they make statements but no actions. NATO, of course, needs access to their bases so they will be patient for a long time.

Eventually I believe NATO will require Turkey to make some specific commitments or actions and events will roll on from the results.

Clearly Turkey wants to be a regional power rather than close to the West; so far this policy has destroyed close ties with Egypt, Syria, North Africa and Israel. It looks like they are reigniting the Civil War with the Kurds!

So are they becoming a powerful pivotal point in the Region or simply isolating themselves?

Erdogan's current policy of turning Turkey back to Islam will appeal to the rural areas but not the cities so increasing internal tensions.

Finally by risking the relationship with NATO he could trigger a similar army action like in Egypt. He did weaken the army by jailing many officers but it still has the major role of protecting the country in the best way!
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