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  #341  
Old 20.10.2014, 19:20
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Re: Islamic State

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What has worship got to do with religion? Honestly your post seems both ignorant and inflammatory
Only seems to be? That's OK then!

Better question is "what do these rules have to do with religion"? Mostly desperate attempts by self appointed clergy to fit ancient books and ideas into this modern world!

Plus some are just absurd, one religion bans pork another beef!
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  #342  
Old 20.10.2014, 20:01
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Re: Islamic State

There are rules of conduct within communities of believers. There are traditions. There are admonitions on how to conduct oneself. But these aren't necessary the laws of the religion. These are traditions. To not be able to differentiate between them and the tenets of the religion will predictably lead you to confuse what you are talking about.

To the topic of Islamic State at hand, the simple question is whether or not this group is Islamic and comprised of Muslims. The political wisdom of Muslim leaders would rather distance themselves from it, and say these are not Muslims. I say they are obfuscating the truth in doing so. These are Muslims attempting to practice Islam as they see fit for their liberation in their present circumstances. To deny it is counter productive.
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  #343  
Old 23.10.2014, 23:46
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Re: Islamic State

A basic issue here is that there is no clerical hierarchy or central institution within Sunni Islam.
Consequently anybody (like ISIS for example) have the right to set themselves up as a Sunni sub group and there is nobody with the authority to deny them or to approve them or to formally state they are Muslim or not.

Sunni Muslims have never achieved any significant degree of solidarity and there are many sub groups who have different views and declare each other wrong.

Imams usually are men of importance in their communities but they need not have any formal training or certification/diplomas, etc.
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  #344  
Old 24.10.2014, 06:12
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Re: Islamic State

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A basic issue here is that there is no clerical hierarchy or central institution within Sunni Islam.
Consequently anybody (like ISIS for example) have the right to set themselves up as a Sunni sub group and there is nobody with the authority to deny them or to approve them or to formally state they are Muslim or not.

Sunni Muslims have never achieved any significant degree of solidarity and there are many sub groups who have different views and declare each other wrong.

Imams usually are men of importance in their communities but they need not have any formal training or certification/diplomas, etc.

The highest of course are the NATIONAL IMAMS, since the last Khaliph who also was Sultan of the fading Turkish Empire gave up. The PRIMUS INTER PARES is the SHEIKH AL ISLAM ---- SHEIKH AL AZHAR
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  #345  
Old 24.10.2014, 10:02
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Re: Islamic State

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A basic issue here is that there is no clerical hierarchy or central institution within Sunni Islam.
Consequently anybody (like ISIS for example) have the right to set themselves up as a Sunni sub group and there is nobody with the authority to deny them or to approve them or to formally state they are Muslim or not.

Sunni Muslims have never achieved any significant degree of solidarity and there are many sub groups who have different views and declare each other wrong.

Imams usually are men of importance in their communities but they need not have any formal training or certification/diplomas, etc.

Denouncing persons or groups as ex-Muslims or Apostates is used more as a practical tactic for political objectives than for religious principle. It is a precursor to justify killing them.
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  #346  
Old 24.10.2014, 13:00
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Re: Islamic State

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The highest of course are the NATIONAL IMAMS, since the last Khaliph who also was Sultan of the fading Turkish Empire gave up. The PRIMUS INTER PARES is the SHEIKH AL ISLAM ---- SHEIKH AL AZHAR
Yes of course there are National and grand Imams but they do not have the authority of a Pope or a Grand Ayatollah who claim to be God's representative on earth.

There is no obligation for Sunni's to follow what Grand Imams say, many do not. In the Sunni Islam people communicate direct with God not via a clerical hierarchy.

Theoretically you and I and Phos could start a Sunni Islam sub-group and take it in turns to be the Imam without requiring any sort of licence or permission. Of course some scholars might speak out against us but the world being what it is we might well have some scholars support us
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  #347  
Old 24.10.2014, 15:36
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Re: Islamic State

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Theoretically you and I and Phos could start a Sunni Islam sub-group and take it in turns to be the Imam without requiring any sort of licence or permission. Of course some scholars might speak out against us but the world being what it is we might well have some scholars support us
I'm in, as long as we put a ban on the brutality, and the Bollywood paradise can be had in this life as well as the next.

Louis Farrakhans' Nation of Islam already proved that. But it turned out to be mostly a personality cult, and Fatwas against them followed.
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  #348  
Old 26.10.2014, 13:54
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Re: Islamic State

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Theoretically you and I and Phos could start a Sunni Islam sub-group and take it in turns to be the Imam without requiring any sort of licence or permission.
You will still need a particular interpretation of Quran and the Hadeeth.
Regards
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  #349  
Old 26.10.2014, 13:58
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Re: Islamic State

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/ir...ials-752065938

600+ air strikes and the results are still nothing to write home about.
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  #350  
Old 26.10.2014, 15:18
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Re: Islamic State

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600+ air strikes and the results are still nothing to write home about.
Oh, I don't know... I quite enjoyed seeing this:

islamic-state-yay-america.jpg

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  #351  
Old 26.10.2014, 16:46
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Re: Islamic State

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http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/ir...ials-752065938

600+ air strikes and the results are still nothing to write home about.
ISIS provoked the US by murdering some Americans.
Now the US are murdering some ISIS people.

Nothing for anyone to write home about, just a big mess.
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  #352  
Old 26.10.2014, 17:05
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Re: Islamic State

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There are rules of conduct within communities of believers. There are traditions. There are admonitions on how to conduct oneself. But these aren't necessary the laws of the religion. These are traditions. To not be able to differentiate between them and the tenets of the religion will predictably lead you to confuse what you are talking about.

To the topic of Islamic State at hand, the simple question is whether or not this group is Islamic and comprised of Muslims. The political wisdom of Muslim leaders would rather distance themselves from it, and say these are not Muslims. I say they are obfuscating the truth in doing so. These are Muslims attempting to practice Islam as they see fit for their liberation in their present circumstances. To deny it is counter productive.
About "To not be able to differentiate between them and the tenets of the religion will predictably lead you to confuse what you are talking about."

Actually there is a very simple rule; if you commit a sin by doing something then you have committed an offence against a religious law. If you have not committed a sin then it is a tradition or a custom but not a religious law.

So eating pork is a sin in some religions, using a condom is a sin in other religions, and other religions believe driving on the Sabbath is a multiple sin!
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  #353  
Old 26.10.2014, 17:23
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Re: Islamic State

Considering the only US casualties have been those beheaded on YouTube, and a guy who fell off a boat, the outcome has not been that bad.

There is a lot of PsyOps taking place. ISIS, Turkey and the Kurds are getting played in Kobani. They are trying to egg ISIS on, while wearing them down through attrition. Its a deathgrip on ISIS. The value of Kobani is less strategic for the coalition, but more psychological. For ISIS, it is both strategic and psychological. ISIS would be better off retreating, from Kobani, but may not be able to without considerable loss to its psychological edge. The Kobani Kurdish resistance has already punctured a hole in the ISIS myth and its psychological advantage.

Erdogan is interesting to watch. He's spinning in circles, and says something different almost everyday, all of it about how Turkey is the most important here, yet it does nothing. Ha His face changes as he spins; one day pro coalition, next day anti-Kurd, then pro Pershmerga, then rants about the US, then pro "moderate" Islamists. I guess all of it depending on who is speaking with at the time.

There are US and SAS Special Forces on the ground providing more timely and accurate bombing coordinates. For as long as they can keep casualties down, they will continue to have domestic political support for the campaign.,
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  #354  
Old 26.10.2014, 17:28
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Re: Islamic State

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ISIS provoked the US by murdering some Americans.
Now the US are killing some ISIS people.
Ftfy in case you mislaid your dictionary
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  #355  
Old 26.10.2014, 17:46
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Re: Islamic State

ISIS going all out in Kobani now before Pershmerga reinforcements arrive tomorrow. Fiercest fighting reported yet. Turkey clears out journalists so no witnesses. Today's outcome in Kobani may be decisive.

Last edited by Phos; 26.10.2014 at 18:04.
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  #356  
Old 26.10.2014, 18:03
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Re: Islamic State

Looks like there was no hill left to take back!

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Oh, I don't know... I quite enjoyed seeing this:

Attachment 89826

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  #357  
Old 27.10.2014, 11:38
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Re: Islamic State

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There is a lot of PsyOps taking place. ISIS, Turkey and the Kurds are getting played in Kobani. They are trying to egg ISIS on, while wearing them down through attrition. Its a deathgrip on ISIS. The value of Kobani is less strategic for the coalition, but more psychological. For ISIS, it is both strategic and psychological. ISIS would be better off retreating, from Kobani, but may not be able to without considerable loss to its psychological edge. The Kobani Kurdish resistance has already punctured a hole in the ISIS myth and its psychological advantage.
I may be being dense on a Monday morning but I don't understand, could you please clarify this?
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  #358  
Old 05.11.2014, 18:13
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Re: Islamic State

Has anyone read this month's New Statesman magazine? I picked it up at LCY, the article by Shiraz Maher about British Jihadis in Syria is fascinating. Alas it isn't available free on the internet.
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  #359  
Old 05.11.2014, 19:26
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Re: Islamic State

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I may be being dense on a Monday morning but I don't understand, could you please clarify this?
Sorry, I didn't notice this. Old post. Something about Kobani being more of symbolic value rather than strategic military value.


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Has anyone read this month's New Statesman magazine? I picked it up at LCY, the article by Shiraz Maher about British Jihadis in Syria is fascinating. Alas it isn't available free on the internet.
Synopsis?
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  #360  
Old 05.11.2014, 19:36
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Re: Islamic State

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Sorry, I didn't notice this. Old post. Something about Kobani being more of symbolic value rather than strategic military value.




Synopsis?
Thanks.

The NS article is written by an academic who specializes in Islamic Fundamentalism. By chance he came across a British Jihadi in Syria and gained his confidence. He managed to track down several others and gained their confidence so has some insight into their motivations, techniques, recruitment strategy etc. Of the original group of 9 he was tracking, only two survive. What's interesting is that some are just motivated by boredom and gaining recognition ('are they talking about me at home')

I can scan the article when I get it back and send it to you if you're interested?
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