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  #21  
Old 14.09.2014, 14:16
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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But 40 states have signed up to a coalition to deal with IS.... Not just UK and US. Australia are sending troops over!
The west are too tied up and worried about human rights and what people think. How can you fight a force like IS with both hands tied behind the back?? Remove all the rules and they could be wiped out in a weekend.
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  #22  
Old 14.09.2014, 14:22
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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The west are too tied up and worried about human rights and what people think. How can you fight a force like IS with both hands tied behind the back?? Remove all the rules and they could be wiped out in a weekend.
Sure. It's easy to remove a threat if you don't care about collateral damage.

I could kill all the bastard fruit flies in my kitchen bin if I blew up my apartment.
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Old 14.09.2014, 14:41
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

How would it have been if the Coalition of the Willing had actually rebuilt Irak into an actual democracy?

How would it have been if 40 countries had made an effort to urge Syria into the right direction before it fell into complete Chaos?

Where would the Syrian civil war be now without support from Saudi money and weapons?

Would IS exist now?
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Old 14.09.2014, 14:42
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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Sure. It's easy to remove a threat if you don't care about collateral damage.

I could kill all the bastard fruit flies in my kitchen bin if I blew up my apartment.
Collateral damage is part of it for sure and maybe some needs to be accepted for the greater good, it's happening right now inflicted by the other side.

But there's plenty of other stuff like the radicalisation and recruitment going on right under the noses of the west, fund raising, giving them "air time" and publicity.
Sure it might not be illegal for fanatics to hand out literature glorifying the beheading of western soldiers on the streets of London. But is it right? Would stomping on it prevent a few from being "radicalised"?
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  #25  
Old 14.09.2014, 15:03
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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But 40 states have signed up to a coalition to deal with IS.... Not just UK and US. Australia are sending troops over!

That reminds me of this.


"Deal with" can mean anything. And that some other five eyes country are involved is not really surprising. They hardly have an own foreign policy any more.
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Old 14.09.2014, 22:25
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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The west are too tied up and worried about human rights and what people think. How can you fight a force like IS with both hands tied behind the back?? Remove all the rules and they could be wiped out in a weekend.
and then what? I mean, after ISIS is "wiped out"?



in 5 years, "the west" will have spent trillions of dollars more and will have sacrificed even more lives of soldiers and civilians, Iraq and Syria will still be utterly devastated, terrorist organizations (be they Hamas, Hezbollah, PLO, Al Qaeda, ISIS or Lord knows what else) will still be committing senseless and counter-productive acts of violence...

...and Saudi will have printed trillions more in US dollars, attracted even more than that in private western capital investment and will have effectively stolen even more western technology. and Saudi women will still not be permitted to drive or leave the country without the signature of a male sponsor, the average Saudi youth will still have virtually zero career opportunities, and rich Saudis will still be using non-Saudi Muslims as indentured servants.

I apologize, btw, for being so cynical, but honestly there are too many people on all sides of the issues buying into the low-hanging fruit about "good guys" and "bad guys", when the reality is that the issues are not all that complex and there have never been any "good guys". ISIS needs to be addressed, and they will be, but the real question is where do we go from there?

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  #27  
Old 14.09.2014, 22:43
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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and then what? I mean, after ISIS is "wiped out"?



in 5 years, "the west" will have spent trillions of dollars more and will have sacrificed even more lives of soldiers and civilians, Iraq and Syria will still be utterly devastated, terrorist organizations (be they Hamas, Hezbollah, PLO, Al Qaeda, ISIS or Lord knows what else) will still be committing senseless and counter-productive acts of violence...

...and Saudi will have printed trillions more in US dollars, attracted even more than that in private western capital investment and will have effectively stolen even more western technology. and Saudi women will still not be permitted to drive or leave the country without the signature of a male sponsor, the average Saudi youth will still have virtually zero career opportunities, and rich Saudis will still be using non-Saudi Muslims as indentured servants.

I apologize, btw, for being so cynical, but honestly there are too many people on all sides of the issues buying into the low-hanging fruit about "good guys" and "bad guys", when the reality is that the issues are not all that complex and there have never been any "good guys". ISIS needs to be addressed, and they will be, but the real question is where do we go from there?

Simple answer 1
Pull out completely and leave them to it, stop reporting and hope it never bothers us.

Simple answer 2
Abolish all religion.

Simple answer 3
Turn back time and leave Sadam et all in power

Unfortunately there is no complex and correct answer.
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Old 14.09.2014, 23:24
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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David Haines fom Perth in Scotland, had worked for a French aid group ACTED for 4 years. He was in the Balkans, Africa, and Middle East before he was captured in Syria in March 2013. Yesterday he was beheaded by IS. Another decent guy, murdered by these evil people. RIP David!

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/1.615628

.

perfectly horrible. Western media people for too long gave direct and indirect Support for Muslim extremism
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  #29  
Old 14.09.2014, 23:32
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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David Haines fom Perth in Scotland, had worked for a French aid group ACTED for 4 years. He was in the Balkans, Africa, and Middle East before he was captured in Syria in March 2013. Yesterday he was beheaded by IS. Another decent guy, murdered by these evil people. RIP David!

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/1.615628

.

The man became a victim of western politics. Obama sends US fighter Bombers, instead of helping the re-building of the Iraqi Air Force. YES, Mr Netanyahu demands to keep Iraq weak. In the meantime, Mr Putin supplied fighter bombers to Iraq and Germany sent arms to the Kurds.


Mr Cameron, instead of giving tearful speeches might supply some no longer needed exRAF fighter plances to the Iraqi Air Force
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  #30  
Old 14.09.2014, 23:51
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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The man became a victim of western politics.
Er, no.

He was a victim of a cowardly, masked Cockney wanker surrounded by all his mates, in someone else's country.

The same Cockney wanker raved against Mr Cameron providing the Peshmerga with weapons. That's right: Mr Cameron is, apparently, an imperialist bastard for providing weapons to people defending themselves against Cockney wankers in their own country.

The logic of this Cockney wanker is the logic of the wanker.

Politics doesn't come into it.
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  #31  
Old 15.09.2014, 00:22
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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Er, no.

He was a victim of a cowardly, masked Cockney wanker surrounded by all his mates, in someone else's country.

The same Cockney wanker raved against Mr Cameron providing the Peshmerga with weapons. That's right: Mr Cameron is, apparently, an imperialist bastard for providing weapons to people defending themselves against Cockney wankers in their own country.

The logic of this Cockney wanker is the logic of the wanker.

Politics doesn't come into it.

For quite a while, Foreign Minister Mr Burkhalter spoke about the embarassing fact that there also are CH nationals among the ISIS extremists .... while Mr Obama takes a stance, Messre Cameron and Hollande do not. Mrs Merkel and Mr Steinmeier in Germany however have done so quite clearly
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  #32  
Old 15.09.2014, 00:28
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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.... while Mr Obama takes a stance, Messre Cameron and Hollande do not.
David Cameron does not take a stance? Which part of "Britain will hunt down" the killers of David Haines did you not understand?
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  #33  
Old 15.09.2014, 00:30
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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The west are too tied up and worried about human rights and what people think. How can you fight a force like IS with both hands tied behind the back?? Remove all the rules and they could be wiped out in a weekend.
Off you go then, let's see how you get on. Please post how it works out back here.
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  #34  
Old 15.09.2014, 00:41
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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But 40 states have signed up to a coalition to deal with IS.... Not just UK and US. Australia are sending troops over!

What is needed is NOT Australian troops being sent over, but upgrade material. Which means fighter planes and tanks and troops Transporters and helicopters.
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Old 15.09.2014, 00:44
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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David Cameron does not take a stance? Which part of "Britain will hunt down" the killers of David Haines did you not understand?

rethorics, and fairly late. Speeches, nice but what fighter planes did he supply to the Iraqi Air Force ?
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Old 15.09.2014, 01:37
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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rethorics, and fairly late. Speeches, nice but what fighter planes did he supply to the Iraqi Air Force ?
The UK has aircraft ready in Cyprus for deployment, according to the BBC, but in any case a little thing called democracy (and parliamentary votes) dictate what the UK does -- not David Cameron alone. The parliament voted against action in Syria and understandably, given the experience of the last 5-10 years, many in Britain are wary of expanding their involvement in Iraq.

How many fighter planes and other pieces of military hardware has Switzerland provided to Iraq?
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  #37  
Old 15.09.2014, 01:45
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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Er, no.

He was a victim of a cowardly, masked Cockney wanker surrounded by all his mates, in someone else's country.

The same Cockney wanker raved against Mr Cameron providing the Peshmerga with weapons. That's right: Mr Cameron is, apparently, an imperialist bastard for providing weapons to people defending themselves against Cockney wankers in their own country.

The logic of this Cockney wanker is the logic of the wanker.

Politics doesn't come into it.
There is nothing cockney about Jihad John, he is speaking with a Multicultural London English (aka Jafaican) accent
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  #38  
Old 15.09.2014, 06:18
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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How would it have been if the Coalition of the Willing had actually rebuilt Irak into an actual democracy?

How would it have been if 40 countries had made an effort to urge Syria into the right direction before it fell into complete Chaos?

Where would the Syrian civil war be now without support from Saudi money and weapons?

Would IS exist now?
How would it have been if people didn't go meddling in Iraq, Syria and Ukraine in the first place?
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Old 15.09.2014, 06:38
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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How would it have been if people didn't go meddling in Iraq, Syria and Ukraine in the first place?
The problem is that we watched and let the Jihadist meddle in Syria far too long.

The one thing that irritates me in the media is that all the conflicts seem to get the same air time and there is no sense of scale whatsoever. If Israel does some idiotic military operation and kills some 2200 is the western media up in arms and cries "genocide". Page two is then about Syria and how complicated it is to separate the good ones from the baddies... but hardly anyone mentions that so far 190.000 died there. Ukraine is so far somewhere around 3000. So in simple terms: Ukraine and Palestine together amount for some 5% of the victims in Syria. Civilians find themselves between the lines of religious nutters like IS and countless similar groups on the one hand and some crazy dictator on the other.

The international community debated for a year what to do there as there is nobody trustworthy enough to be supported... and this has proven to be the perfect environment to recruit and train an extremist army and then invade Iraq with it. Nobody in the West wanted another war, but ignoring a civil war on this insane scale does not seem to work either...

Last edited by Treverus; 15.09.2014 at 07:56.
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Old 15.09.2014, 06:42
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Re: Islamic State executes Scottish aid worker David Haines,

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The UK has aircraft ready in Cyprus for deployment, according to the BBC, but in any case a little thing called democracy (and parliamentary votes) dictate what the UK does -- not David Cameron alone. The parliament voted against action in Syria and understandably, given the experience of the last 5-10 years, many in Britain are wary of expanding their involvement in Iraq.

How many fighter planes and other pieces of military hardware has Switzerland provided to Iraq?

What Iraq Needs are NOT aircraft DEPLOYED but aircraft supplied to the IRAQI AIR FORCE


All grenades, for aircraft and guns, contain a Kind of watch, and a main supplier for this is the Swatch Group


Beside being NEUTRAL, Switzerland does NOT produce fighter planes, and the Oerlikon-Group has become a real-estate-company long ago
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