Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 30.09.2014, 18:49
Sbrinz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,915
Groaned at 590 Times in 377 Posts
Thanked 11,538 Times in 5,935 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catalan referendum

Quote:
View Post
This.

I wonder when we'll get over the myth of independence and recognize both the need for and reality of inter-dependence. Ich sage das als ein Amerikaner, too :P
Thank you, that is what I wanted to say. We have unity, often after previous damaging civil wars, and now why should countries be split up, for the advantage of a few?

I believe Catalonia wants to separate from Spain, because they create most of the wealth in Spain, but disagree with how Madrid spends it. After devolution the result would be two Spanish countries, with the EU supporting the larger but poorer Spain.
  #22  
Old 30.09.2014, 18:53
xandeo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Top right corner
Posts: 276
Groaned at 26 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 341 Times in 135 Posts
xandeo is considered knowledgeablexandeo is considered knowledgeablexandeo is considered knowledgeable
Re: Catalan referendum

Quote:
View Post
I believe Catalonia wants to separate from Spain, as they create most of the wealth but disagree with how Madrid spends it.
This is what the populists are claiming. Somehow, just like in many other of these "we want independende"-outcries, the truth is not quite that simple - the populists are forgetting how much the state of Spain has invested in Catalonia, as it is, and has been for a long time, the largest receiver of state subsidies.
This user would like to thank xandeo for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 30.09.2014, 19:16
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: switzerland
Posts: 0
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
smurfle has no particular reputation at present
Re: Catalan referendum

It seems foreigners don't really understand what is going on in Cataluņa right now so I'll try to summarize the main points:

Like in Switzerland, Spain is governed by a constitution. In the constitution it is prohibited to issue a referendum by a local government asking it's people to decide on a matter like that of independence.

For a referendum to be valid, every Spanish must have a say on the independence of Cataluņa. After all, every Spanish has paid taxes to prevent bankruptcy of Cataluņa. But hey, for some Catalans, they prefer to open embassies abroad and close hospitals, or continue to call Spanish as thieves meanwhile their local politicians have thousand of million of euros from taxes hidden in Switzerland.

Hypocrites aside, all I am saying is, we are on 21st century. In cataluņa Spanish is banned even from cinemas, even its citizens cannot use it or they will get a fine from the government. Muslim and Coran is even more protected than Spanish. In schools they teach young generations with fake history to start manipulating their mind.

The worst part of this is foreigners don't see the reality of the situation, where only less than a million of Catalans seek independence while cataluņa is about 4 million inhabitants. Of course the oligarchy of cataluņa( that of the politicians whose families have thousands of money laundered in Switzerland) are the ones governing by coming into agreement 4 or 5 parties out of 8 in order to govern.

Also, to end, it is not possible to compare Scotland to Cataluņa. Scotland was once an independent country with its boundaries. Cataluņa has always been part of the Spanish crown, it was from Aragon and melted with Castilla. Stop misinformation
This user groans at smurfle for this post:
  #24  
Old 30.09.2014, 21:26
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 7,141
Groaned at 208 Times in 166 Posts
Thanked 12,532 Times in 5,151 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catalan referendum

Quote:
View Post
What did they do ...... confuse west with east?
More like north with south. Can you get any more north and still be in Italy?
  #25  
Old 30.09.2014, 21:35
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 299
Groaned at 67 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 219 Times in 111 Posts
UktoSwiss is considered a nuisanceUktoSwiss is considered a nuisanceUktoSwiss is considered a nuisance
Re: Catalan referendum

Quote:
View Post
Maybe we can begin with Europe?

Catalonians
Basques
Belgians
West Italians
Venetians
Albanians in Hungary
Welsh
Romands
You missed one-
This user would like to thank UktoSwiss for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 30.09.2014, 21:51
Dack Rambo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,556
Groaned at 180 Times in 107 Posts
Thanked 1,681 Times in 813 Posts
Dack Rambo has an excellent reputationDack Rambo has an excellent reputationDack Rambo has an excellent reputationDack Rambo has an excellent reputation
Re: Catalan referendum

Quote:
View Post
It seems foreigners don't really understand what is going on in Cataluņa right now so I'll try to summarize the main points:

Like in Switzerland, Spain is governed by a constitution. In the constitution it is prohibited to issue a referendum by a local government asking it's people to decide on a matter like that of independence.

For a referendum to be valid, every Spanish must have a say on the independence of Cataluņa. After all, every Spanish has paid taxes to prevent bankruptcy of Cataluņa. But hey, for some Catalans, they prefer to open embassies abroad and close hospitals, or continue to call Spanish as thieves meanwhile their local politicians have thousand of million of euros from taxes hidden in Switzerland.

Hypocrites aside, all I am saying is, we are on 21st century. In cataluņa Spanish is banned even from cinemas, even its citizens cannot use it or they will get a fine from the government. Muslim and Coran is even more protected than Spanish. In schools they teach young generations with fake history to start manipulating their mind.

The worst part of this is foreigners don't see the reality of the situation, where only less than a million of Catalans seek independence while cataluņa is about 4 million inhabitants. Of course the oligarchy of cataluņa( that of the politicians whose families have thousands of money laundered in Switzerland) are the ones governing by coming into agreement 4 or 5 parties out of 8 in order to govern.

Also, to end, it is not possible to compare Scotland to Cataluņa. Scotland was once an independent country with its boundaries. Cataluņa has always been part of the Spanish crown, it was from Aragon and melted with Castilla. Stop misinformation
the Coran is more protected than Spanish - WTF?
  #27  
Old 30.09.2014, 21:59
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 2,908
Groaned at 90 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 3,804 Times in 1,868 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catalan referendum

Quote:
View Post
It seems foreigners don't really understand what is going on in Cataluņa right now so I'll try to summarize the main points:

Like in Switzerland, Spain is governed by a constitution. In the constitution it is prohibited to issue a referendum by a local government asking it's people to decide on a matter like that of independence.

For a referendum to be valid, every Spanish must have a say on the independence of Cataluņa. After all, every Spanish has paid taxes to prevent bankruptcy of Cataluņa. But hey, for some Catalans, they prefer to open embassies abroad and close hospitals, or continue to call Spanish as thieves meanwhile their local politicians have thousand of million of euros from taxes hidden in Switzerland.

Hypocrites aside, all I am saying is, we are on 21st century. In cataluņa Spanish is banned even from cinemas, even its citizens cannot use it or they will get a fine from the government. Muslim and Coran is even more protected than Spanish. In schools they teach young generations with fake history to start manipulating their mind.

The worst part of this is foreigners don't see the reality of the situation, where only less than a million of Catalans seek independence while cataluņa is about 4 million inhabitants. Of course the oligarchy of cataluņa( that of the politicians whose families have thousands of money laundered in Switzerland) are the ones governing by coming into agreement 4 or 5 parties out of 8 in order to govern.

Also, to end, it is not possible to compare Scotland to Cataluņa. Scotland was once an independent country with its boundaries. Cataluņa has always been part of the Spanish crown, it was from Aragon and melted with Castilla. Stop misinformation
Let me guess....you're Catalan, right?
  #28  
Old 30.09.2014, 22:47
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 210 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 6,404 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catalan referendum

Quote:
View Post
Why not allow it?
Because Catalonia agreed to the constitution in 1978 and to the autonomy in 2006. They would have to change the constitution to allow referendum on secession. There is no way around the constitution in countries where there is one. The UK works differently.
  #29  
Old 30.09.2014, 23:24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: CH
Posts: 449
Groaned at 9 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 647 Times in 281 Posts
Laertes has a reputation beyond reputeLaertes has a reputation beyond reputeLaertes has a reputation beyond reputeLaertes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catalan referendum

Quote:
View Post
Because Catalonia agreed to the constitution in 1978 and to the autonomy in 2006. They would have to change the constitution to allow referendum on secession. There is no way around the constitution in countries where there is one. The UK works differently.
What happens if Catalonia just declares itself independent? I don't think, that the EU would accept it if Spain tried to reintegrate Catalonia by military force, would they?

Besides, isn't the acceptence of the vote in Kosovo by many EU countries, which also was against the Serbian constitution, a precedent for this situation?

Last edited by Laertes; 01.10.2014 at 00:12.
  #30  
Old 01.10.2014, 01:01
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Geneva
Posts: 186
Groaned at 26 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 17 Posts
michleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthy
Re: Catalan referendum

Quote:
View Post
the EU should insist that this referendum is allowed to go ahead. We cannot critisise the Chinese for their actions inHong Kong and then allow the Spanish to do the same in Catalonia.
Same applies for Crimea referendum?
  #31  
Old 01.10.2014, 01:02
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Geneva
Posts: 186
Groaned at 26 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 17 Posts
michleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthy
Re: Catalan referendum

Quote:
View Post
Maybe we can begin with Europe?


Albanians in Hungary
Think in fact there is slightly more Albanians in Switzerland, then in Hungary...
  #32  
Old 01.10.2014, 01:18
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Geneva
Posts: 186
Groaned at 26 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 17 Posts
michleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthy
Re: Catalan referendum

Quote:
View Post
In Scotland we experienced the situtation where devolution can be a very emotive idea.
We cannot allow self centered politicians to break a union that has been in existance for hundreds of years.
Ah suppose you also then support Serbia not only de-iure but to de-facto reintegrate Kosovo?

After all, it is not even a Union, but part of Serbia for more than 10 centuries (perhaps like Kent is a part of England).
This user would like to thank michleman for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 01.10.2014, 01:20
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Geneva
Posts: 186
Groaned at 26 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 17 Posts
michleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthy
Re: Catalan referendum

Quote:
View Post
The Croats, Kosovans and Ukranians might beg to differ.
Serbs in Bosnia, too?
The following 2 users would like to thank michleman for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 01.10.2014, 01:21
panda's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 170
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 90 Times in 57 Posts
panda is considered knowledgeablepanda is considered knowledgeablepanda is considered knowledgeable
Re: Catalan referendum

Quote:
View Post
In cataluņa Spanish is banned even from cinemas, even its citizens cannot use it or they will get a fine from the government. Muslim and Coran is even more protected than Spanish. In schools they teach young generations with fake history to start manipulating their mind.
Really not claiming to know any details whatsoever, but I have spoken Spanish in Catalan and not been punished in any way whatsoever
This user would like to thank panda for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 01.10.2014, 01:22
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Geneva
Posts: 186
Groaned at 26 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 17 Posts
michleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthymichleman is considered unworthy
Re: Catalan referendum

Quote:
View Post
We have unity, often after previous damaging civil wars, and now why should countries be split up, for the advantage of a few?
Ah, so Yugoslavia should never have split?

Cannot agree more with you Brinz, unfortunately your governments totally disagreed with you.

Oh well... panta rei.
  #36  
Old 01.10.2014, 01:33
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: GL
Posts: 16,378
Groaned at 1,036 Times in 802 Posts
Thanked 43,269 Times in 13,405 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catalan referendum

Welcome back, Mikimedic!
  #37  
Old 01.10.2014, 09:16
Sbrinz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,915
Groaned at 590 Times in 377 Posts
Thanked 11,538 Times in 5,935 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catalan referendum

Quote:
View Post
Ah suppose you also then support Serbia not only de-iure but to de-facto reintegrate Kosovo?

After all, it is not even a Union, but part of Serbia for more than 10 centuries (perhaps like Kent is a part of England).
In my opinion, that was very badly handled by everyone.

The Albanians should have gone home, and the Serbs should have been more diplomatic. Today neither country is better off than before, are they?

Which is my point, splitting does not improve either country. it is usually "Better together!"
  #38  
Old 01.10.2014, 09:19
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: GL
Posts: 16,378
Groaned at 1,036 Times in 802 Posts
Thanked 43,269 Times in 13,405 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catalan referendum

Quote:
View Post

The Albanians should have gone home
  #39  
Old 01.10.2014, 10:31
xynth's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 819
Groaned at 37 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,928 Times in 558 Posts
xynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Catalan referendum

He probably quoted an SVP poster by accident.
This user would like to thank xynth for this useful post:
  #40  
Old 01.10.2014, 10:33
panda's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 170
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 90 Times in 57 Posts
panda is considered knowledgeablepanda is considered knowledgeablepanda is considered knowledgeable
Re: Catalan referendum

Quote:
View Post
The Albanians should have gone home,
Do you live in your own country?
Closed Thread

Tags
autonomy, referendum




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swiss hold referendum referendum The Local Swiss news via The Local 1 15.06.2012 12:43
Catalan sheepdog, 4 year old male, needs a forever home rosrae Pet Trading Post 4 03.10.2011 17:44
Any Catalan in here? Nil General off-topic 22 04.07.2011 17:07
Catalan Wine milengua Food and drink 3 26.04.2010 15:31
Catalan/Spanish elenadisco Language corner 4 15.07.2009 13:44


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0