Russia and NATO in the News - Page 47

leonie · #**921** 30.09.2015, 14:43

	Quote:	marton
	In fact they had the full monty; internal passports, exit visas, entry visas, long procedures for travel approval.

This is absolutely wrong -- the borders between the Soviet Union republucs have been completely open. No visas, no checks, nothing. Moving within the USSR territory was absolutely unrestricted except for the areas with important military or national security objects.

leonie · #**922** 30.09.2015, 15:43

The Federation Council of Russia granted Putin the permition to use military force in Syria. Putin promised not to involve the drafted soldiers there but only the volunteer contractors. Russia just entered the war with ISIS...

yacek · #**923** 30.09.2015, 16:39

	Quote:	leonie
	This is absolutely wrong -- the borders between the Soviet Union republucs have been completely open. No visas, no checks, nothing. Moving within the USSR territory was absolutely unrestricted except for the areas with important military or national security objects.

There was propiska, and you could not freely move w/o an internal passport, which until mid-seventies was not granted at all to collective farm workers, they needed an up to 30 days valid travel permission with route and places to stay prescribed, moving to cities was regulated and restricted, minorities were forbidden from moving (especially back to their ethnic places of origin), people couldn't leave the bloody country at all. The internal passport was dropped only in 2004, while propiska in 1991.
http://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports98/...usstest-04.htm

Even today freedom of movement in Russia is it not a constitutional right:
http://www.academia.edu/6344176/Eins...hen_Föderation

leonie · #**924** 30.09.2015, 17:19

	Quote:	yacek
	There was propiska, and you could not freely move w/o an internal passport, which until mid-seventies was not granted at all to collective farm workers, they needed an up to 30 days valid travel permission with route and places to stay prescribed, moving to cities was regulated and restricted, minorities were forbidden from moving (especially back to their ethnic places of origin), people couldn't leave the bloody country at all. The internal passport was dropped only in 2004, while propiska in 1991. http://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports98/...usstest-04.htm Even today freedom of movement in Russia is it not a constitutional right: http://www.academia.edu/6344176/Eins...hen_Föderation

This is news for me that the internal passports and "propiska" have been dropped. I have a valid internal Russian passport with propiska since I was 16. This internal passport is little more than an ID there.

My grandparents moved to the city from the village with no problem much earlier than in 70th -- this is about the difficulties of moving to cities.

Things have been different during the Stalin times but became much better after his death in 1953

yacek · #**925** 30.09.2015, 21:02

Some entire ethnic groups couldn't move until eighties. Maybe you're not just Soviet, but also ethnic Russian?
Millions of Poles were deported from what's now western Belarus, Ukraine and baltic republics to Kazakhstan and Siberia in the twenties and and then after SU jointly attacked Poland in 1939. Many, many died. They could not move back at all at any time in the times of USSR. Similarly other undesirable peoples.

leonie · #**926** 30.09.2015, 21:08

	Quote:	yacek
	Some entire ethnic groups couldn't move until eighties. Maybe you're not just Soviet, but also ethnic Russian?

I am not an ethnic Russian.

Which ethnic groups couldn't move until the eighties?

yacek · #**927** 30.09.2015, 21:12

When the deported peoples could have move back to the places they were deported from?

leonie · #**928** 30.09.2015, 21:37

	Quote:	yacek
	When the deported peoples could have move back to the places they were deported from?

Couple of years after the death of J.Stalin there was the historic XX congress of the communist party of the Soviet Union. It is known for denouncing the crimes of the Stalin regime. At that time the political prisoners have been released, most of the Stalins victims rehabilitated and their rights restored. The previously deported persons had been announced innocent and free go anywhere they wanted to. As far as I know their property was not returned and no compensation offered, but they got their rights restored and they got cleared from the "enemy of the people" crimes.

leonie · #**929** 01.10.2015, 08:22

	Quote:	yacek
	Some entire ethnic groups couldn't move until eighties. Maybe you're not just Soviet, but also ethnic Russian? Millions of Poles were deported from what's now western Belarus, Ukraine and baltic republics to Kazakhstan and Siberia in the twenties and and then after SU jointly attacked Poland in 1939. Many, many died. They could not move back at all at any time in the times of USSR. Similarly other undesirable peoples.

You have added the part about the Poles later -- and it is ironic that you mentioned Poles. I will not go into details of your claim about "millions" of Poles being deported -- that's a bit too many Poles for a minority group )) Well, the irony is -- my fathers family are Poles from what's now western Ukraine. Our great-grandfather had been murdered by Stalin regime. But I assure you that during the later Soviet times members of my family could and did live all over the territory of the former Soviet Union, including major cities. My father also was able to travel abroad as a scientist.

yacek · #**930** 01.10.2015, 23:56

	Quote:	leonie
	I will not go into details of your claim about "millions" of Poles being deported -- that's a bit too many Poles for a minority group.

Just learn the history or read some historic research about the numbers of those who were deported to basically die out of hunger. But maybe not from the books printed from the USSR blueprints. The deported peoples were often the majority before. And most people weren't able to move freely, not even thinking about settling back, until late eighties, and what the politburo declared after Stalin died mattered very little. Who could easily travel, move and climb the social ladder? You know well who. The betrayers, these who joined the party, who denounced others, who signed up to work for the secret police. Same was everywhere in the "peoples' democracies" btw.

marton · #**931** 02.10.2015, 01:15

	Quote:	yacek
	Just learn the history or read some historic research about the numbers of those who were deported to basically die out of hunger. But maybe not from the books printed from the USSR blueprints. The deported peoples were often the majority before. And most people weren't able to move freely, not even thinking about settling back, until late eighties, and what the politburo declared after Stalin died mattered very little. Who could easily travel, move and climb the social ladder? You know well who. The betrayers, these who joined the party, who denounced others, who signed up to work for the secret police. Same was everywhere in the "peoples' democracies" btw.

About "the betrayers, these who joined the party, who denounced others, who signed up to work for the secret police" Took you a long time to recognise this

bigfujitsu · #**932** 05.10.2015, 23:32

russia is flexing and nato is shitting their pants again. what is next?

lewton · #**933** 06.10.2015, 00:34

	Quote:	bigfujitsu
	russia is flexing and nato is shitting their pants again. what is next?

NATO should probably try to avoid bombing hospitals in the future.

bigfujitsu · #**934** 08.10.2015, 17:31

the recent videos of the cruise missles flying low over turkey and iraq are some of the coolest videos since the west started bombing the mutherers!

Russia's cruise missiles are seen speeding through the skies on their way to 'destroy ISIS targets' as Syrian army begins 'major attack' on towns held by 'terrorists'
Footage purports to show Russian cruise missiles soaring through skies
The two missiles were launched from warships located in the Caspian Sea

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3nzF9PCnW

How does this work?

yacek · #**935** 08.10.2015, 21:05

US is using missiles all the time there. Why so much ado now?

esto · #**936** 09.10.2015, 10:58

	Quote:	yacek
	US is using missiles all the time there. Why so much ado now?

Medium Range Ballistic Missiles? No, I don't think so, or only in a few rare cases.

esto · #**937** 11.10.2015, 16:25

	Quote:
	A Russian air force jet has been shot down by Turkish forces after it strayed into the country's airspace, according to unconfirmed reports. Eyewitnesses reported a large explosion in Huraytan, northern Syria, as three fighter jets were sighted flying overhead, the Express said. A Turkish-based journalist tweeted that three Turkish planes were responding after radar locked on to some "mysterious" MiG-29 jets, which are a similiar model to those used by Russian forces.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/russian-je...1.html#pwJ35JX

	Quote:
	“We need to protect our pilots but at the same time we’re taking a step closer to war. It will only take one plane to be shot down in an air-to-air battle and the whole landscape will change,” said a senior defense source, according to the Daily Star, adding that it is just a matter of time before British fighters are involved in a deadly confrontation with Russian jets. The RAF Tornado jets will be equipped with the Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile – a supersonic weapon which can blast any aircraft out of the sky. Each aircraft can carry four missiles. UK defense chiefs believe there is a real possibility a British jet could be attacked or shot down in a dogfight with a Russian pilot. RAF pilots have been told to avoid contact with Russian jets at all costs and both US and British mission control teams will do their best to keep them apart. Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/world/1149316-...nes-media.html

Rumors that Turkish Air Forces shot down a Russian MIG over Turkey, also rumors that RAF are authorized to shoot Russian fighters if necessary. Could only be rumors, but nevertheless, the potential for a NATO/Russia escalation are very real.

marton · #**938** 13.10.2015, 00:41

Poland (supported by EU grants) is set to build a gas pipeline to link to the Baltic states Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia.

This is intended to break Russia's monopoly on gas supply and give the Baltic states a better negotiating position on gas prices.
Both Poland and Lithuania are starting to import LNG gas by sea.

bigfujitsu · #**939** 13.10.2015, 09:56

	Quote:	yacek
	US is using missiles all the time there. Why so much ado now?

you have to be honest and admit that the launch of a dozen cruise missiles from a ship and guiding them more than 1000 kilometers over several countries in order to strike hell into the compounds of terrorists is the most awesome thing that any military has done in the past many years...

not to mention the many amateur videos showing the small fast and low ground hugging misses zooming by on their way to delivering them to Allah.

How does this work?

marton · #**940** 13.10.2015, 10:59

	Quote:	bigfujitsu
	you have to be honest and admit that the launch of a dozen cruise missiles from a ship and guiding them more than 1000 kilometers over several countries in order to strike hell into the compounds of terrorists is the most awesome thing that any military has done in the past many years... not to mention the many amateur videos showing the small fast and low ground hugging misses zooming by on their way to delivering them to Allah.

No, not awesome. In August 1998 the US fired 75 Tomahawk cruise missiles into Al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan from ships.

Which puts Russian technology about 20 years behind the US.

Not to mention the US fired more missiles over a greater distance.

The Russian comment at the time; President Boris Yeltsin condemned the U.S. action as "dishonorable"