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Old 30.10.2014, 14:56
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Russia and NATO in the News

I noticed a lot of incidents involving the Russian military in the past couple of months. What are they cooking up?

In the past two days, NATO detected at least 19 Russian aircraft in international airspace. NATO has conducted over 100 intercepts of Russian aircraft in 2014 to date, about three times as many as were conducted in 2013.

NATO says Russian jets, bombers circle Europe in unusual incidents
By Michael Birnbaum October 29 at 4:24 PM

MiG-31 fighter jets are not commonly seen close to Europe but some were intercepted along with other aircraft above the Baltic Sea in two separate incidents on Tuesday and Wednesday.

MOSCOW — NATO said Wednesday that it had intercepted a large number of Russian aircraft flying close to European airspace in the past two days, in an “unusual” series of incidents that brought Russian bombers as far afield as Portugal.

The aircraft — at least 19 in all — offered reminders of Russian air power at a time of the worst relations between the West and Russia since the Cold War. Russian military aircraft have significantly increased their activity in Europe since the conflict in Ukraine began earlier this year, with NATO scrambling to intercept aircraft more than 100 times in 2014. But a NATO official said the scale of the latest incidents was the most provocative this year.

Over the Atlantic Ocean and the North, Black and Baltic seas, Russian bombers, fighter jets and tanker aircraft were detected flying in international airspace, NATO said. There were no incursions into national airspace, a violation of sovereignty that would have significantly amplified the seriousness of the four incidents, three of which took place on Wednesday.

“We’re raising it as an unusual level of activity,” said Lt. Col. Jay Janzen, a spokesman for NATO’s military command in Mons, Belgium. “The flights we’ve seen in the last 24 hours, the size of those flights and some of the flight plans are definitely unusual.”

U.S. officials regard the flights as a show of force by the Putin government. “It’s concerning because it’s moving in the wrong direction,” said one U.S. defense official, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the air activity publicly. “It’s not helping to de-escalate the situation in Ukraine. It’s not helping to improve relations between NATO and Russia. It’s not helping anybody.”


At least nineteen Russian aircraft, including fighter jets and bombers, have been intercepted in four waves over Europe yesterday and today. VIEW GRAPHIC
Smaller-scale incidents have also increased this year, approximately tripling from the same period in 2013, Janzen said.

In at least one of the four incidents, the aircraft had switched off their transponders and had not filed flight plans with civilian air traffic controllers. That means that civilian air traffic control cannot track them, potentially creating a risk for civilian planes.

That incident took place around 3:00 a.m. in Western Europe on Wednesday, when four Tu-95 long-range strategic nuclear bombers and four Il-78 tanker aircraft flew over the Norwegian Sea. Norwegian F-16 fighter jets scrambled to intercept them. Six of the planes returned to Russia, but two of the bombers skirted the Norwegian coast, flew past Britain — sending Typhoon fighter jets to scramble in response — and then finally looped west of Spain and Portugal, attracting Portuguese F-16s. Then the two bombers appeared to return to Russia, Janzen said.

The Tu-95 bombers are not commonly seen close to Europe, Janzen said. Nor are the MiG-31 fighter jets that were intercepted along with other aircraft above the Baltic Sea in two separate incidents Tuesday and Wednesday. It was not immediately clear whether the two incidents above the Baltic represented the same group of seven planes entering and departing a Russian military base at Kaliningrad.

There was no immediate reaction from the Russian government.

Fighter jets from Norway, Britain, Portugal, Turkey, Germany, Denmark, Finland and Sweden were involved in responding to the Russian aircraft, Janzen said. Finland and Sweden are not members of NATO, and they have long refrained from joining the defensive alliance, which was formed after World War II as a bulwark against the Soviet Union.


But military incidents with Russia this year have caused both countries to start to reevaluate their positions. Most recently, the Swedish military last week spent several days searching a vast territory for an unidentified underwater craft suspected to be Russian. Last month, Sweden said two Russian military planes had violated its airspace.

A Novus opinion poll released Tuesday found for the first time that more Swedes favored joining NATO than opposed it.

The most recent violation of NATO airspace was last week, when a Russian spy plane flew almost 2,000 feet into Estonian airspace. This year, NATO increased its air patrols based in the Baltics from four to 16 jets, a measure of the newly hot confrontation between the two military juggernauts.

The incidents appear to have set European militaries on edge this week. British fighter jets were scrambled Wednesday to bring a civilian Antonov cargo jet into a London airport; it stopped responding to radio calls from air traffic controllers while flying over the British capital. That caused a supersonic boom that was audible across a large stretch of southeastern England.


The Putin System


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Old 30.10.2014, 15:38
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Well what does NATO expect? After years of encroaching and squeezing the former Warsaw pact Russia has said "enough is enough" and is pushing back, throw a strong nationalistic grrrr-woof-woofery into the mix and you get a cold war lite. it also helps little that Putin is rumored to have pancreatic cancer by the way.
It would also seem that the sanctions against Russia are showing effect, only not in the rather naive way western politicians had hoped for.
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Old 30.10.2014, 15:56
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

So many stupid factual mistakes in that article. Truth is that there have been many more NATO intercepts in the eastern Baltic since Tuesday, keeping everyone (especially Germany, because its their turn to police the area along with the Canadians and Portugese whilst the Dutch are currently flying from Malbork, Poland) busy with air surveillance.

One of the changes this time is that both Sweden and Finland have joined NATO forces in supporting the Baltic air policing mission. No wonder that the Russians are feeling a little isolated.

Better report here.
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Old 30.10.2014, 16:42
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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... After years of encroaching and squeezing the former Warsaw pact Russia has said "enough is enough" ...
My words exactly... You are referring to the golden age of 1945-1990, no?
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Old 30.10.2014, 16:49
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

There are so many systems in place surrounding Russia.
I dont see what Russia can do if it ever wants to take military actions against the west.

Tightening the screws on Russia's belligerence in Eastern Europe, the United States on last Friday marked the expansion of its defence foot print in Europe. It ignored Russia's long standing criticism, and made the first land-based U.S missile shield a reality when the U. S. Navy commissioned its new offshore missile defence base in southern Romania. It is the first of the two land-based interceptor sites in Europe designed as a NATO missile shield, reported Stripes. The next missile hub will be in Poland.

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/56997...m#.VFJPQ_nF_h4

Stars and Stripes | Oct 10, 2014 | by Steven Beardsley
NAPLES, Italy -- The Navy will commission its new missile defense base in southern Romania on Friday, one of two European land-based interceptor sites for a NATO missile shield vehemently opposed by Russia.
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Old 30.10.2014, 18:50
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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My words exactly... You are referring to the golden age of 1945-1990, no?
Depends on who you see as the goodies or the baddies, NATO did not exactly sit around twiddling thumbs with brain in neutral in the power vaccum following the collapse of the Warsaw pact.
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Old 30.10.2014, 19:23
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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Depends on who you see as the goodies or the baddies, NATO did not exactly sit around twiddling thumbs with brain in neutral in the power vaccum following the collapse of the Warsaw pact.
See, I would agree to that should those little Eastern European countries at the middle of it were an empty land void of any people that could express their conscience.

But that wasn't really the case - the western choice of those countries was clear and remains clear throughout. They've had enough of communism and russian interference. So to come now and say it was NATO's fault that those countries went West is forgetting history really.
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Old 30.10.2014, 21:12
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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See, I would agree to that should those little Eastern European countries at the middle of it were an empty land void of any people that could express their conscience.

But that wasn't really the case - the western choice of those countries was clear and remains clear throughout. They've had enough of communism and russian interference. So to come now and say it was NATO's fault that those countries went West is forgetting history really.
No, that is not how it was meant to be read, Of course the countries that kicked the commies out wanted to go as fast as they could put pen to paper to "the west" read: "where the money is" but can you blame the Russkies (Slammer is a cold war kid) for feeling peeved, also look at how the ultra nationalist right in Russia has been groomed, Russia could have been a major player in global world economics, standing on equal terms with the other players, instead they tried to compete and run in the western form of vampire capitalism before they could even crawl and got themselves beaten back down every time as a result. that gave the right wing a casus beli to claim that "the west" was trying to break "mother Russia" resulting in the grrrrr-woof-wooofery we see today.
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Old 31.10.2014, 09:39
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

Putin has given a long speech a few days ago at the Valday conference in Sochi, and he said that play-time is over. Here are some of the points he has made:

1. Russia will no longer play games and engage in back-room negotiations over trifles. But Russia is prepared for serious conversations and agreements, if these are conducive to collective security, are based on fairness and take into account the interests of each side.

2. All systems of global collective security now lie in ruins. There are no longer any international security guarantees at all. And the entity that destroyed them has a name: The United States of America.

3. The builders of the New World Order have failed, having built a sand castle. Whether or not a new world order of any sort is to be built is not just Russia's decision, but it is a decision that will not be made without Russia.

4. Russia favors a conservative approach to introducing innovations into the social order, but is not opposed to investigating and discussing such innovations, to see if introducing any of them might be justified.

5. Russia has no intention of going fishing in the murky waters created by America's ever-expanding “empire of chaos,” and has no interest in building a new empire of her own (this is unnecessary; Russia's challenges lie in developing her already vast territory). Neither is Russia willing to act as a savior of the world, as she had in the past.

6. Russia will not attempt to reformat the world in her own image, but neither will she allow anyone to reformat her in their image. Russia will not close herself off from the world, but anyone who tries to close her off from the world will be sure to reap a whirlwind.

7. Russia does not wish for the chaos to spread, does not want war, and has no intention of starting one. However, today Russia sees the outbreak of global war as almost inevitable, is prepared for it, and is continuing to prepare for it. Russia does not war—nor does she fear it.

8. Russia does not intend to take an active role in thwarting those who are still attempting to construct their New World Order - until their efforts start to impinge on Russia's key interests. Russia would prefer to stand by and watch them give themselves as many lumps as their poor heads can take. But those who manage to drag Russia into this process, through disregard for her interests, will be taught the true meaning of pain.

9. In her external, and, even more so, internal politics, Russia's power will rely not on the elites and their back-room dealing, but on the will of the people.
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Old 31.10.2014, 09:49
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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I noticed a lot of incidents involving the Russian military in the past couple of months. What are they cooking up?
......
The Russians are coming!
Two Royal Air Force jets reportedly threatened to shoot down a Latvian cargo plane, rushing at supersonic speeds to intercept it, after the plane failed to respond to air traffic control over Kent in Southern England and sent authorities into panic mode.
....
NATO stated that it has intercepted four groups of Russian planes since Tuesday. “These sizeable Russian flights represent an unusual level of air activity over European airspace,” the alliance said.

Most media reports based on the NATO statement failed to mention that the Russian planes did not cross any borders and remained within international airspace in every mentioned case.
....
http://rt.com/news/200695-uk-jets-latvian-plane-attack/
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Old 31.10.2014, 10:32
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

In early October Russia cut gas supplies to Romania by 18 percent.

A day later, Russia cut once again the supplies, by 13 percent.

Partly related to the NATO missile base in Romania and Romanian investigation into the Russian energy business.
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Old 31.10.2014, 10:48
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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Putin has given a long speech a few days ago at the Valday conference in Sochi, and he said that play-time is over. Here are some of the points he has made:

1. Russia will no longer play games and engage in back-room negotiations over trifles. But Russia is prepared for serious conversations and agreements, if these are conducive to collective security, are based on fairness and take into account the interests of each side.

2. All systems of global collective security now lie in ruins. There are no longer any international security guarantees at all. And the entity that destroyed them has a name: The United States of America.

3. The builders of the New World Order have failed, having built a sand castle. Whether or not a new world order of any sort is to be built is not just Russia's decision, but it is a decision that will not be made without Russia.

4. Russia favors a conservative approach to introducing innovations into the social order, but is not opposed to investigating and discussing such innovations, to see if introducing any of them might be justified.

5. Russia has no intention of going fishing in the murky waters created by America's ever-expanding “empire of chaos,” and has no interest in building a new empire of her own (this is unnecessary; Russia's challenges lie in developing her already vast territory). Neither is Russia willing to act as a savior of the world, as she had in the past.

6. Russia will not attempt to reformat the world in her own image, but neither will she allow anyone to reformat her in their image. Russia will not close herself off from the world, but anyone who tries to close her off from the world will be sure to reap a whirlwind.

7. Russia does not wish for the chaos to spread, does not want war, and has no intention of starting one. However, today Russia sees the outbreak of global war as almost inevitable, is prepared for it, and is continuing to prepare for it. Russia does not war—nor does she fear it.

8. Russia does not intend to take an active role in thwarting those who are still attempting to construct their New World Order - until their efforts start to impinge on Russia's key interests. Russia would prefer to stand by and watch them give themselves as many lumps as their poor heads can take. But those who manage to drag Russia into this process, through disregard for her interests, will be taught the true meaning of pain.

9. In her external, and, even more so, internal politics, Russia's power will rely not on the elites and their back-room dealing, but on the will of the people.
Considering he's portrayed as crazy in the western press this makes a lot of sense. Still wouldn't trust and Ex KGB guy as far as I could throw him.
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Old 31.10.2014, 11:10
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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Putin has given a long speech a few days ago at the Valday conference in Sochi, and he said that play-time is over. Here are some of the points he has made:

1. Russia will no longer play games and engage in back-room negotiations over trifles. But Russia is prepared for serious conversations and agreements, if these are conducive to collective security, are based on fairness and take into account the interests of each side.

2. All systems of global collective security now lie in ruins. There are no longer any international security guarantees at all. And the entity that destroyed them has a name: The United States of America.

3. The builders of the New World Order have failed, having built a sand castle. Whether or not a new world order of any sort is to be built is not just Russia's decision, but it is a decision that will not be made without Russia.

4. Russia favors a conservative approach to introducing innovations into the social order, but is not opposed to investigating and discussing such innovations, to see if introducing any of them might be justified.

5. Russia has no intention of going fishing in the murky waters created by America's ever-expanding “empire of chaos,” and has no interest in building a new empire of her own (this is unnecessary; Russia's challenges lie in developing her already vast territory). Neither is Russia willing to act as a saviour of the world, as she had in the past.

6. Russia will not attempt to reformat the world in her own image, but neither will she allow anyone to reformat her in their image. Russia will not close herself off from the world, but anyone who tries to close her off from the world will be sure to reap a whirlwind.

7. Russia does not wish for the chaos to spread, does not want war, and has no intention of starting one. However, today Russia sees the outbreak of global war as almost inevitable, is prepared for it, and is continuing to prepare for it. Russia does not war—nor does she fear it.

8. Russia does not intend to take an active role in thwarting those who are still attempting to construct their New World Order - until their efforts start to impinge on Russia's key interests. Russia would prefer to stand by and watch them give themselves as many lumps as their poor heads can take. But those who manage to drag Russia into this process, through disregard for her interests, will be taught the true meaning of pain.

9. In her external, and, even more so, internal politics, Russia's power will rely not on the elites and their back-room dealing, but on the will of the people.
About "Neither is Russia willing to act as a saviour of the world, as she had in the past." When was that exactly?

About "today Russia sees the outbreak of global war as almost inevitable, is prepared for it, and is continuing to prepare for it" I find this very threatening?
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Old 31.10.2014, 11:20
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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2. All systems of global collective security now lie in ruins. There are no longer any international security guarantees at all. And the entity that destroyed them has a name: The United States of America.
How exactly? Obama is probably the weakest US president in decades in terms of foreign affairs. He's focused mainly internally on the US with Obama-care, income equality, etc. He seems to care very little about Ukraine, the Middle East, etc. His foreign policy seems to be "let them figure it out"

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9. In her external, and, even more so, internal politics, Russia's power will rely not on the elites and their back-room dealing, but on the will of the people.
The last time a Russian leader actually listened to the "will of the people" was circa 1990 when the Soviet Union collapsed.

As for "elites and backroom dealing" Russia today is tightly controlled by Putin and his inner circle of gas Czars and KGB pals. If that's not elites and backroom dealings, I don't know what is.
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Old 31.10.2014, 11:22
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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.... but can you blame the Russkies (Slammer is a cold war kid) for feeling peeved
No, I don't see why they have the right to be peeved that some countrie's people chose to go their own way. Eastern Europe wasn't and isn't their garden to play into.

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also look at how the ultra nationalist right in Russia has been groomed
That is obvious to anyone - but that doesn't justify it.

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Russia could have been a major player in global world economics, standing on equal terms with the other players, instead they tried to compete and run in the western form of vampire capitalism
I don't think economically competing the west was ever in russian's leader's minds. Russia's economy has morphed into a mafiotic society whose goals aren't really to compete on the global scale - but to grab as much wealth by any means possible. That's where the root of the problem lies - the rest is just propaganda.
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Old 31.10.2014, 11:26
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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Putin has given a long speech a few days ago at the Valday conference in Sochi, and he said that play-time is over. Here are some of the points he has made:

1. Russia will no longer play games and engage in back-room negotiations over trifles. But Russia is prepared for serious conversations and agreements, if these are conducive to collective security, are based on fairness and take into account the interests of each side.

2. All systems of global collective security now lie in ruins. There are no longer any international security guarantees at all. And the entity that destroyed them has a name: The United States of America.

3. The builders of the New World Order have failed, having built a sand castle. Whether or not a new world order of any sort is to be built is not just Russia's decision, but it is a decision that will not be made without Russia.

4. Russia favors a conservative approach to introducing innovations into the social order, but is not opposed to investigating and discussing such innovations, to see if introducing any of them might be justified.

5. Russia has no intention of going fishing in the murky waters created by America's ever-expanding “empire of chaos,” and has no interest in building a new empire of her own (this is unnecessary; Russia's challenges lie in developing her already vast territory). Neither is Russia willing to act as a savior of the world, as she had in the past.

6. Russia will not attempt to reformat the world in her own image, but neither will she allow anyone to reformat her in their image. Russia will not close herself off from the world, but anyone who tries to close her off from the world will be sure to reap a whirlwind.

7. Russia does not wish for the chaos to spread, does not want war, and has no intention of starting one. However, today Russia sees the outbreak of global war as almost inevitable, is prepared for it, and is continuing to prepare for it. Russia does not war—nor does she fear it.

8. Russia does not intend to take an active role in thwarting those who are still attempting to construct their New World Order - until their efforts start to impinge on Russia's key interests. Russia would prefer to stand by and watch them give themselves as many lumps as their poor heads can take. But those who manage to drag Russia into this process, through disregard for her interests, will be taught the true meaning of pain.

9. In her external, and, even more so, internal politics, Russia's power will rely not on the elites and their back-room dealing, but on the will of the people.
Thank you for quoting from the party's manifesto, commarade.

Now please replace the words "Russia" and "people" with the word "Putin" in the text above and then it may start to make some sense.
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Old 31.10.2014, 11:33
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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One of the changes this time is that both Sweden and Finland have joined NATO forces in supporting the Baltic air policing mission. No wonder that the Russians are feeling a little isolated.

Better report here.
Maybe Russia simulating nuclear attacks on Sweden got them a little nervous and is pushing them even more in the NATO direction? Is Russia not isolating itself?

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it's obvious that Putin dislikes when Finland and Sweden cooperate with NATO. That means that Russia is sending signals that it could get dangerous if you operate military exercises with NATO. For example, they simulated a nuclear attack against Sweden at the same time as Sweden had NATO operations.
You could also question their actions as if they're testing the readiness of the Swedish military. They’re using classic tactics that they used during the Cold War era, when they would fly close to the border, or precisely over the border to see what kind of surveillance system Sweden has and how fast the military will react.
http://www.vice.com/en_se/read/why-i...dish-territory
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Old 31.10.2014, 11:47
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

it looks like they are probing the response of NATO country and their radar systems. The Russians are very keen on radar technologies, which made it possible for them to shoot down the CIA U-2 spy plane traveling at altitudes of up to 70,000 feet, in the 1960s...


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Old 31.10.2014, 11:47
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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The Russians are coming!
Two Royal Air Force jets reportedly threatened to shoot down a Latvian cargo plane, rushing at supersonic speeds to intercept it, after the plane failed to respond to air traffic control over Kent in Southern England and sent authorities into panic mode.
....
NATO stated that it has intercepted four groups of Russian planes since Tuesday. “These sizeable Russian flights represent an unusual level of air activity over European airspace,” the alliance said.

Most media reports based on the NATO statement failed to mention that the Russian planes did not cross any borders and remained within international airspace in every mentioned case.
....
http://rt.com/news/200695-uk-jets-latvian-plane-attack/
About "Two Royal Air Force jets reportedly threatened to shoot down a Latvian cargo plane, rushing at supersonic speeds to intercept it, after the plane failed to respond to air traffic control over Kent in Southern England " How do you think the Russians would react to a plane that failed to respond to air traffic control?

About "the Russian planes did not cross any borders and remained within international airspace" Suppose you are a passenger in a civil airliner approaching UK and near you are high speed military aircraft with transponders switched off so your pilot and civil air traffic control cannot see them; how comfortable are you in your seat?

This is one reason why countries have an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) which is airspace over land or water in which the identification, location, and control of civil aircraft is required in the interest of national security.
They extend beyond a country's airspace to give the country more time to respond to foreign and possibly hostile aircraft.
It is standard practice to launch fighters if a foreign aircraft enters an ADIZ with identifying.

There is an agreement "PREVENTION OF DANGEROUS MILITARY ACTIVITIES BETWEEN THE US AND RUSSIA" between the United States and Russia which seeks to ensure safety of the personnel and equipment of each country's armed forces by avoiding certain dangerous military activities - Russia regularly ignores this agreement by entering ADIZs without identifying.
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Old 31.10.2014, 11:58
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Re: Russia and NATO in the News

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Maybe Russia simulating nuclear attacks on Sweden got them a little nervous and is pushing them even more in the NATO direction? Is Russia not isolating itself?
Indeed!

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it looks like they are probing the response of NATO country and their radar systems. The Russians are very keen on radar technologies, which made it possible for them to shoot down the CIA U-2 spy plane traveling at altitudes of up to 70,000 feet, in the 1960s...
Nice chart!
Oddly the pilot of the CIA U-2 spy plane survived while the pilot of the Russian MIG they managed to shoot down at the same time sadly did not survive.
It is believed the Russian MIG transponder did not work correctly; most likely it was not updated with the day's code.
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