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-   -   UK targets East Europe immigrants (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/223062-uk-targets-east-europe-immigrants.html)

MrVertigo 28.11.2014 20:30

UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
Cameron announced a series of measures including a 4 year ban before getting welfare for immigrants. If immigrants don't find a job within 6 months they are sent back home. Clearly in the target are immigrants from eastern europe (Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, ..)
At least some of our EF british friends and other foreigners will spend 50% of their criticism on UK and not only on CH.

BLP 28.11.2014 20:34

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
Have you been in London recently? Around Hyde Park it's bad. The demographics have changed quite a bit, not for the better. I felt it wasnt much to expect people in shops/restaurants in London to understand English.

MrVertigo 28.11.2014 20:37

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
I am quite often in London and I was surprised by the number of foreigners in the service sector (hotel, restaurant, etc...). I hear more french in London than in Bern...and these are young french immigrants who decided to live in the UK.

BLP 28.11.2014 20:45

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrVertigo (Post 2292298)
I am quite often in London and I was surprised by the number of foreigners in the service sector (hotel, restaurant, etc...). I hear more french in London than in Bern...and these are young french immigrants who decided to live in the UK.

I recently lived near a french school so heard a lot of french on the bus.

The benefits are amazing compared to the countries where these people come from. A friend from Romania is the manager of a cafe, they are happy to hire brits but find they don't apply or are expecting higher pay/less hours. If she hires someone from Romania they are happier with less and complain less.

basher 28.11.2014 21:02

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
The targets are anyone who comes to the UK with the intention of just milking the over-generous system. There has been a large and completely integrated Polish community in the UK since the 1950`s. I shared a few beers with a former school friend in Nottingham today - he is Polish and told me that many Poles are rightly angry and upset about the current racist comments. Just get one thing straight, we Brits welcome anyone who is willing to work and contribute - wherever they come from. There are many more than Brits who complain about Switzerland. I for one prefer to complain about the Brit-bashers.

slammer 28.11.2014 22:15

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
Just need to look around Blackburnistan.

cannut 28.11.2014 23:18

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrVertigo (Post 2292292)
Cameron announced a series of measures including a 4 year ban before getting welfare for immigrants. If immigrants don't find a job within 6 months they are sent back home. Clearly in the target are immigrants from eastern europe (Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, ..)
At least some of our EF british friends and other foreigners will spend 50% of their criticism on UK and not only on CH.


I like that :msnsarcastic::p

jacek 28.11.2014 23:20

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
It's not original concept though. Didn't the initiative come first from clever Swiss politicians and spreaded up north?

Sbrinz 29.11.2014 00:10

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
Cameron has the right wing UKIP drinking party biting his ankles, and he has had to make a statement before all his remaining supporters exit to the right wing pub discussions.

The facts are, that the UK is not generous. Certainly a Romanian will get £8'000 per year in the UK, but only £2'000 per year back home in Bucharest. And maybe some of the citizens with the right wing persuasion, should try and live in the UK on £8'000 per year? They will soon be looking for a job!

Facts here: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25134521

greenmount 29.11.2014 01:14

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sbrinz (Post 2292390)
Cameron has the right wing UKIP drinking party biting his ankles, and he has had to make a statement before all his remaining supporters exit to the right wing pub discussions.

The facts are, that the UK is not generous. Certainly a Romanian will get £8'000 per year in the UK, but only £2'000 per year back home in Bucharest. And maybe some of the citizens with the right wing persuasion, should try and live in the UK on £8'000 per year? They will soon be looking for a job!

Facts here: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25134521

No, those are not Bucharest people. That would be the absolutely lowest salary in Bucharest, probably people who collect the garbage or something. (actually not, garbage collectors aren't payed that badly)

Why nobody mentions the many Romanian doctors working in the UK? They are badly missed back home. I mean, they are so many they have a professional organisation only in UK?... Yeah, "incredible".
http://www.smruk.org/about/

P.S. When we launch these discussions themes I'd really like to have informed debates. I can't buy sensationalism, although it might have its adepts. (not you Sbrynz)

Jim2007 29.11.2014 01:40

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrVertigo (Post 2292292)
Cameron announced a series of measures including a 4 year ban before getting welfare for immigrants. If immigrants don't find a job within 6 months they are sent back home. Clearly in the target are immigrants from eastern europe (Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, ..)
At least some of our EF british friends and other foreigners will spend 50% of their criticism on UK and not only on CH.

Well if you look at the rules governing the free movement of people it does allow for requiring people to return home should they fail to find work which can provide them with an economic living. And this has been confirmed in a recent EU court ruling in favor of Germany. The only question is why the UK government has not been doing this??

Restricting the benefits is also possible provided all EU citizens are treated the same and that includes UK citizens! And from a distance it does not seem unreasonable to require all employees to contribute to the system for a period before they start drawing benefits.

The thing is both of these measures can be implemented without negotiating with the EU! So why has DC not acted? And by the same token if the UKIP is really so concerned about the situation why have they not highlighted this failure to act? The answer I expect is games, political games as usual.

greenmount 29.11.2014 01:53

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim2007 (Post 2292426)
The thing is both of these measures can be implemented without negotiating with the EU

Absolutely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim2007 (Post 2292426)
The answer I expect is games, political games as usual.

Hmmm.

Guest 29.11.2014 12:29

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim2007 (Post 2292426)
The answer I expect is games, political games as usual.

Of course. The timing makes it obvious. Its all political posturing to draw lines in a fracturing Tory party. After election, stoke up something seemingly more urgent, and this is quickly forgotten.

Mind control wizardry.

k_and_e 29.11.2014 13:32

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
it might be better to first concentrate on the slavery issue
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...iously-thought

greenmount 29.11.2014 13:47

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
That's from January 2013, prior to the lifting of work restrictions for the E.U.-2
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...rs-full-rights

Quote:

Since 2007 Romanian and Bulgarian workers have been able to enter the UK freely and have been allowed to be self-employed, many of whom are working in the construction industry. In practice this means there are already large numbers of Romanian and Bulgarian workers being exploited. The self-employed don't have any employment rights or protections and even minimum wage legislation doesn't apply.

These issues were covered in a report for Ucatt, The Hidden Workforce Building Britain, published in 2011. The report examined how and why migrant workers were being exploited in the construction industry. It described how large numbers of migrant workers, mainly Romanians and Bulgarians, gather early in the morning in the car parks of Wickes stores in London, in the hope of being picked up and getting work.

The men told the report's authors that on the days they did get work they were paid cash in hand, receiving as little as £40 for a nine- or 10-hour day. One 25-year old Romanian said: "I'm always paid cash in hand and it's always less than the minimum wage. But I do it because I need to eat. I know it's bad but you have no choice."

Before 2007, when other migrant workers have come to us with similar stories of exploitation, we have been able to help, including exposing large construction companies who had allowed these practices to occur on their sites. But given the self-employment rules covering Romanians and Bulgarians – and the fact that they face the possibility of being heavily fined if found to be working illegally – there is often little that can be currently done.

It is for these reasons that Ucatt has argued that the employment restrictions on Romanian and Bulgarian workers should be lifted as soon as possible. By ensuring that these workers can be employed and protected by employment rights the level of exploitation will be reduced and the problem of workers being forced to work for wages that undercut existing rates will decrease.

An interesting study on "Hidden work force building Britain".....
http://www.community-links.org/links.../PDF/UCATT.pdf

So, come again? Who's "milking" whom? ;)

yacek 29.11.2014 15:33

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
Northern Ireland isn't a welcoming even if immigrants are at about 1.5%:
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/11/29...ith-fists.html

Similar stories I've heard about villages in other parts of UK.

MrVertigo 29.11.2014 16:02

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
Interesting numbers on UK immigrants by country of origin for the period Jan-Sept 2014. Numbers are shown in thousands unit and based on social security number issued during that period.

http://m0.libe.com/infographic/2014/...2b1af48d05.svg
Source: Libération & Office for National Statistics

greenmount 29.11.2014 16:12

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
Social security numbers are issued when one is registering as resident. ;) Everyone needs one even for the simplest things - i.e. tax office, in a hospital, utilities, phone contracts etc. It says everything about you - age, address, civil status). Social benefits are not guaranteed by having a social security number, rights for social benefits are analysed by the social department for each case.

Migration from Eastern Europe was to be expected and it will continue to happen, but surely not at the apocalyptical rates predicted in tabloids. :)

Pachyderm 29.11.2014 16:42

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sbrinz (Post 2292390)
The facts are, that the UK is not generous. Certainly a Romanian will get £8'000 per year in the UK, but only £2'000 per year back home in Bucharest. And maybe some of the citizens with the right wing persuasion, should try and live in the UK on £8'000 per year? They will soon be looking for a job!

You've missed one of the major points. The UK benefits systems tops up low wages. So a worker employed on a low salary is entitled to claim a variety of additional payments from the state, including housing benefit to cover accommodation costs. As far as I'm aware these credits are far more generous in the UK than elsewhere. On top of that, non-British workers with families back in Bucharest, or wherever, are able to claim Child Allowance and other family benefits and have the money paid in Romania! (Needless to say, this is a difficult system to manage, and it is almost certainly abused.)

As usual, a policy designed to offer assistance to those most in need, ends up being exploited. However it's not so much the workers who have exploited the system as employers, who quickly realised their potential as a low wage subsidy. Net result is that wages are kept artificially low and unskilled UK workers are priced out by EU immigrants willing to work for lower wages as long as they can get the top-ups and accommodation subsidy.

Many of the people now supporting UKIP, the anti-EU party grabbing recent headlines, come from this section of British society who feel they are being priced out of their future. Rightly or wrongly, they blame the EU rules for their predicament.

This is why the EU needs to be extremely careful about the consequences of immigration policy. The intentions are good but too much liberalisation, too quickly, will end up capsizing the entire project, and we will all lose out.

greenmount 29.11.2014 16:48

Re: UK targets East Europe immigrants
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pachyderm (Post 2292699)
This is why the EU needs to be extremely careful about the consequences of immigration policy. The intentions are good but too much liberalisation, too quickly, will end up capsizing the entire project, and we will all lose out.

I think the E.U had a pretty clear message for U.K. Freedom of labour movement is one of the fundamental principles of E.U., and they will stay the same. For every member state. There will be no second class citizens, or there will be no united Europe.

Btw, didn't Ukip start to say the biggest immigration comes from Commonwealth, recently? What's the truth?


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