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  #81  
Old 04.08.2015, 22:37
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

Some would even argue that all the problems the uk faced over the years, hardship, unemployment, riots, levels of crime, violence and alcoholism, etc since, were because our politicians were too busy committing crimes themselves rather than the countries interests. What example is that?

Sure, its not very nice and entertaining but our parents, relatives, etc voted these wankers in. If it may even slightly change the way politics is done in the uk in the future & the victims get justice, good. And the families of the paedophiles do not deserve the lie that their name is reputable and will get their future genertions into high places.

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  #82  
Old 05.08.2015, 06:30
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

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Maybe the whole country needs to be destablised.

Paedophiles in power, poor at food banks despite having one of the largest economies in the world. Public services in ruins, declining standards of health. Zero hours contracts, millions with no prospect of getting a job.

What exactly about the country is there to be destabilized anyway - just the lifestyle of the 0.1% in Pissing-on-the-poor in the Cotswolds.
Too right ! Well said !
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  #83  
Old 05.08.2015, 11:58
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

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[snip]
Shame on those that covered up the whole nasty business at the time because they were told to lie and "do their duty". What is being revealed here is that there were a lot more people other than the pedophiles who had a totally warped sense of honesty, integrity and sense of doing the right thing. They were all a cancer to British society.
In the 70s and 80s, probably far into the 90s, sex with children was considered far from being rape by everybody.

For instance in Germany, gay groups in their fight to legalize homosexuality, teamed up with pedophiles. The idea was to legalize any and every sexual relationship based on mutual consent, without any age or sex restriction. The move was considered part of the sexual revolution and enjoyed widespread support among liberals and the left.

In that context, it may be inappropriate to think those helping PMs etc hide the facts are/were all monsters. Instead they may simply have followed contemporary Zeitgeist. And now, after the winds changed, reluctant to incriminate themselves.

Last edited by Urs Max; 05.08.2015 at 12:08.
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  #84  
Old 05.08.2015, 12:44
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

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<snip for length>
In that context, it may be inappropriate to think those helping PMs etc hide the facts are/were all monsters. Instead they may simply have followed contemporary Zeitgeist. And now, after the winds changed, reluctant to incriminate themselves.
I call bullshit!

Your use of the term Zeitgeist evokes a feeling that this deemed "OK" and acceptable. I don't think it was.

A much greater influence throughout the 60-70-80s was the role of "institutions". Government-backed organisations and business institutions held a huge amount "corporate" power and you just didn't go against the establishment. David was much too easily crushed and hushed up by Golliath until more modern telecoms and the internet put curbs on this power.

Back then you generally did what the men in suits told you - despite what everyone would like to think about the 1960s... After all if you wanted to "expose" someone, you had to rely on a news channel being open for you to get your message out (likely they also had their own skeletons so wouldn't want to rock the boat).

More likely you would be cast out yourself, lose your job and be branded as a "trouble-maker". After all, even now, whistle-blowers have a bad rep even though they are an essential part of society "checks".

I agree that while that doesn't make people who covered up monsters, it does make them complicit, whether willingly or not. The challenge is simply that back then the word of someone who was part of the "establishment" held much more sway than one who was not, which meant that victims simply were blamed, told it was their fault or not believed. Again, look at how we (still) treat rape victims: there's always a portion of society who to this day still say "what did you expect if you wear a dress like that...".
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  #85  
Old 05.08.2015, 12:49
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

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For instance in Germany, gay groups in their fight to legalize homosexuality, teamed up with pedophiles. The idea was to legalize any and every sexual relationship based on mutual consent, without any age or sex restriction. The move was considered part of the sexual revolution and enjoyed widespread support among liberals and the left.
Yes, there was even a major scandal that hit the Green Party when it emerged that many of their founding figures (some of whom are still active in politics today) had advocated the legalislation of sex with children, or at least been tolerant towards party members who had advocated that.

I don't know how that scandal ended or whether any action was taken against the individuals involved.

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In that context, it may be inappropriate to think those helping PMs etc hide the facts are/were all monsters. Instead they may simply have followed contemporary Zeitgeist. And now, after the winds changed, reluctant to incriminate themselves.
The Zeitgeist is a dangerous thing to use to cover your back. It may be a good gamble to follow the herd mentality despite knowing better. But it can come back and haunt you.

Of course the 1960s were a period that the herd mentality was particularly strong, and significant parts of the the 1968 generation, despite talking about peace and tolerance, were and still are particularly intolerant and vindictive towards those who disagreed with them.
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  #86  
Old 05.08.2015, 14:14
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

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Next up, and here is the story behind Ted Heath, former British PM. In this strategic release of information we are informed that Wiltshire Police have been investigating him and his paedophilic activities in the 70's and 80's since last year (though they could have been doing that more than 25 years ago.)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...hile-ring.html
On breakfast TV someone pointed out that Heath always had 5 bodyguards from special branch with him. We all suspected him at the time for being a closet homosexual, so maybe his crimes were completed before he became Prime Minister? He would also have been positively vetted by security services before he became a minister, so it is hard to believe he was a closet criminal.
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Old 05.08.2015, 14:30
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

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On breakfast TV someone pointed out that Heath always had 5 bodyguards from special branch with him. We all suspected him at the time for being a closet homosexual, so maybe his crimes were completed before he became Prime Minister? He would also have been positively vetted by security services before he became a minister, so it is hard to believe he was a closet criminal.
He was elected by the electorate, what makes you think he was positively vetted ? Seems most unlikely to me.
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  #88  
Old 05.08.2015, 17:10
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

When I was a kid in the UK in the 1980s we sometimes used to slip into the adult section at the library to look at some of the sex manuals that were on the shelves there. They tpically had drawings or if you were lucky even photographs of couples having sex. One of these books (albeit with drawings, not photos) actually showed how to have sex with kids.

This was in a public library, payed with tax money and whose purchasing policy was supervised by council employees.

So yes, I definitely agree that there was a cavalier attitude back then in tolerating these things, or pretending you didn't know.
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  #89  
Old 05.08.2015, 17:49
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

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When I was a kid in the UK in the 1980s we sometimes used to slip into the adult section at the library to look at some of the sex manuals that were on the shelves there. They tpically had drawings or if you were lucky even photographs of couples having sex. One of these books (albeit with drawings, not photos) actually showed how to have sex with kids.

This was in a public library, payed with tax money and whose purchasing policy was supervised by council employees.

So yes, I definitely agree that there was a cavalier attitude back then in tolerating these things, or pretending you didn't know.
And if you were really lucky the librarian would catch you and flash you her minge

EDIT:
Nothing that went on in the 70s, 80s, 90s or 00s hadn't happened before nor will stop happening now. There are countless different types of sexual gratification or desires - pretty much all of which have -phile names. There is one for people who like to engage in sexual activities while be stung with nettles. Many of these -philes are legal or if not legal, harmless.

So that means we end up talking about those -philes which are illegal and harmful - so we believe that their occurrence is any greater now than it was before? Or that in the 70s it occured any more frequently than it had done in the 20s or 30s? Or even the 1820s or 1830s for that matter?

The chances are that there has always been those in power who have used their position to gain access to those who can satisfy their -phile - whether be a small child or a field of nettles.

What has changed is society's willingness to openly discuss these topics but also society's access to material for which the vast majority would have had little contact. Pornography has existed since the first person figured out you could draw on a cave wall - and what did they draw? Naked people!! The proliferation of it and the ease in which people of all ages can now locate images/videos of people doing exactly what turns them on means we are all now more aware of the wider sexual universe.

There is no doubt in my mind that acting on paedophilic desires is wrong and those involved should be dealt with within the confines of the law. My concern is whether we are applying too much judgement from our position of hindsight and whether society benefits as a whole if 40 year old cases are raked up and aired in public, especially when the person in question is no longer alive.

I also don't believe that an individuals choices necessarily lead them to make incorrect professional decisions, particularly in the case of government policy. If that really was the case, and westminsters corruptions so deep and depraved, then the age of consent would have been revoked, and we would be having a completely different conversation.

Edit again:
Back to my off the cuff opening quip. I "grew up in the 80s" (born in the 70s) and would the quip have happened we'd have probably ran from the library giggling.
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Last edited by dodgyken; 05.08.2015 at 18:16.
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  #90  
Old 05.08.2015, 19:02
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

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Edit again:
Back to my off the cuff opening quip. I "grew up in the 80s" (born in the 70s) and would the quip have happened we'd have probably ran from the library giggling.
Actually, that's exactly what we did.

It wasn't until many years later that the implications of the presence of this book on the shelf of a public library dawned on me.
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  #91  
Old 09.08.2015, 22:15
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

Back to Lord Greville Janner then: In April this year the CPS admitted Lord Janner, who as an MP for Leicester West was known as Greville Janner, should have faced multiple child sex abuse charges in 1991 and again in 2007.

Also must remind those who seem to think all paedophile MP's who committed child abuse crimes in the 70's, 80's and 90's are dead, Janner is not and he will be due in court on friday. Chief magistrate Howard Riddle said Janner was fit to appear even if he could become confused.

"Labour peer Lord Janner of Braunstone is a “serial child abuser” who “violated, raped and tortured” children in the Houses of Parliament, an MP has said. “Children being violated, raped and tortured, some in the very building in which we now sit"... now there is democracy for you!

Considering the level of his abuse of power, I am really happy for his victims who will be able to feel that at least a little bit of justice will happen in court in westminster on friday.
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  #92  
Old 12.08.2015, 12:21
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

Poor Greville, turn up or you'll face arrest as lawyers attempt to make the excuse that his human rights are being breached, really? Can't wait to see him in court... as he will be the first LIVING MP to face the court for his crimes (and definitely not the last).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...an-rights.html

Police are also investigating a second indecent assault against a 14 year old boy by Kenneth Clarke, who, I'm informed is also not dead.

http://www.exaronews.com/articles/56...decent-assault
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Old 14.08.2015, 17:29
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

Today Lord Janner finally appeared at Westminster magistrates court after his lawyers earlier were told to stop messing about by the judge. Wouldn't you know it, he could talk and even knew his own name!

This may now be the trigger for many living paedophile politicians to also face charges.
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Old 15.08.2015, 01:02
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

Don't let Janner's situation upset you. 4 doctors agreed he was not fit to defend himself, and he might yet be tried in his absence.

There are plenty more paedophiles out and about, waiting to be caught. Janner is no longer active, & so I think we should be going after the younger ones, and stopping them.
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Old 15.08.2015, 01:23
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

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Don't let Janner's situation upset you. 4 doctors agreed he was not fit to defend himself, and he might yet be tried in his absence.
.
Not really any point under English law as he can't be found guilty.

'The purpose of a criminal trial is to test the evidence against a named defendant. If the defendant is dead, abroad or suffering from dementia, there can be no trial.'

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/...justice-system
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Old 15.08.2015, 01:46
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

In my day if you complained about dirty old, or not so old men, you got in trouble for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
You had to mind your station and not stir up trouble. I was born in January 1959.
One became adept at avoiding the situation or being terribly brutal as the man was at his most vulnerable. Even if he was your teacher/uncle/ mum and dads best friend. Survivors rule the earth.
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Old 15.08.2015, 01:53
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

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Not really any point under English law as he can't be found guilty.

'The purpose of a criminal trial is to test the evidence against a named defendant. If the defendant is dead, abroad or suffering from dementia, there can be no trial.'

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/...justice-system
On BBC TV they said the opposite: "There can be a trial of the facts, without Jenner being present"

I am not going to argue the matter with you, or with the Grauniad, but agreed, Jenner will not be found guilty.
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Old 15.08.2015, 08:14
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

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Don't let Janner's situation upset you. 4 doctors agreed he was not fit to defend himself, and he might yet be tried in his absence.

There are plenty more paedophiles out and about, waiting to be caught. Janner is no longer active, & so I think we should be going after the younger ones, and stopping them.
Absolutely, and remember he is part of a ring of them, sinister I know but finding one guilty even in his absence helps connect to others who are guilty and worthy of trial.
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Old 15.08.2015, 11:37
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

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On BBC TV they said the opposite: "There can be a trial of the facts, without Jenner being present"

I am not going to argue the matter with you, or with the Grauniad, but agreed, Jenner will not be found guilty.
A trial of the facts is an investigation in the UK, not a criminal trial.
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Old 19.08.2015, 09:22
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Re: Westminster Paedophile Ring

The Germans have also ran a news documentary about it now...



And a link to this shocking page: WESTMINSTER PAEDOPHILE SCANDAL, LABOUR MP: ‘I SEE PEOPLE IN PARLIAMENT WHO SHOULD BE IN PRISON’ and it still annoys me how people bury their heads in the sand about the fact the ring is still in operation and 12 MP's are still in parliament doing their daily duties!

The part about Esther Baker at only 6 years old is really beyond reality, 200 children have gone missing, reflecting the fact that there are
plenty of witnesses and evidence but a very slow inquiry is not even giving us daily news feeds on this. Total scandal.
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