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  #21  
Old 10.12.2014, 10:39
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Re: CIA Report

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basically

The cia tortured people in the name of freedom, but only towel heads, not real people

and it got no useful results

and the world is shocked

Well, not shocked, most people don't care, but we'll pretend to be shocked
And Russia and China would tell us much less if they start the war on terror so that is fine that the report is heavily redacted
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  #22  
Old 10.12.2014, 10:44
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Re: CIA Report

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And Russia and China would tell us much less if they start the war on terror so that is fine that the report is heavily redacted

Well, that's true.


All big powers are utter ****s. The USA is a ****, Russia is a ****, and China is a ****.


We've all got to live under the "protection" of one of these ****s.


Given the choice, I'll take the **** which offers pumpkin pie, cream soda and cheese in a can, thank you very much.
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  #23  
Old 10.12.2014, 10:45
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Re: CIA Report

Nothing new tbh, let's move on and enjoy Christmas.
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  #24  
Old 10.12.2014, 10:45
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Re: CIA Report

Don't forget Fluff, any country with Fluff must be ok
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  #25  
Old 10.12.2014, 10:57
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Re: CIA Report

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basically

The cia tortured people in the name of freedom, but only towel heads, not real people

and it got no useful results

and the world is shocked

Well, not shocked, most people don't care, but we'll pretend to be shocked
Sure it got useful results. It got Bin Laden. Well that and the same amount of money and time it took to put a man on the Moon*.

*Actually the Moon landing didn't cost as much and took less time.
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  #26  
Old 10.12.2014, 11:33
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Re: CIA Report

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Sure it got useful results. It got Bin Laden.

no it didn't
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  #27  
Old 10.12.2014, 11:42
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Re: CIA Report

Whether or not it got results is irrelevant, the acts described in the released report almost without question violate international law and are utterly and completely inexcusable. The 2 things I find most disappointing as an American, however, are (a) the fact that the report is clearly being released for partisan political purposes, and (b) the fact that there was any debate within the US at all as to whether or not its citizens had a right to know what its government was doing.
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  #28  
Old 10.12.2014, 12:04
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Re: CIA Report

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basically



Well, not shocked, most people don't care, but we'll pretend to be shocked
Thats the bit that shows how tribal everyone still is really, despite not saying they are to the whole world (everyone, this isnt at all talking abotu you bb).

If ISIS in iraq released a web cam showing their current set of US people they have kidnapped being kept up for 180 hourse and having food shoved up their arse then nearly drowned for a while, then people would be like REALLY REALLY SHOCKED THE HEARTLESS ANIMALS THEY DESERVE TO DIE LAUNCH THE B52's.

But when its us doing it to a few of them ("well, they're probably guilty anway, if you think about it, my mates friends son's brother told me they tried to blow up some primary schools once you know..") then no one - here - gives a toss.

And they wonder why ISIS keep chopping peoples heads off.
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  #29  
Old 10.12.2014, 12:20
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Re: CIA Report

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Don't forget Fluff, any country with Fluff must be ok
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  #30  
Old 10.12.2014, 12:28
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

I hope Americans sleep soundly in their beds at night knowing the same guys who dreamt up these tourtures are also protecting them.
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  #31  
Old 10.12.2014, 13:07
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

Respect that they investigated and published
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  #32  
Old 10.12.2014, 13:09
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

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I hope Americans sleep soundly in their beds at night knowing the same guys who dreamt up these tourtures are also protecting them.
If you think it doesn't happen under UK rule (or probably the majority of the world's), then I can see how your sleep might be unaffected.
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  #33  
Old 10.12.2014, 13:13
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

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If you think it doesn't happen under UK rule (or probably the majority of the world's), then I can see how your sleep might be unaffected.

because I'm not in the UK and they'll never find my house
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  #34  
Old 10.12.2014, 13:14
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

The Guardian writes that 21 European countries were involved in supporting the CIA in its illegal rendition and torture activities:

Poland
Romania
Sweden
Italy
Lithuania
UK
Germany
Spain
Portugal
Belgium
Denmark
Finland
Iceland
Austria
Czech
Greece
Cyprus
Croatia
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Albania
Croatia

Switzerland is not on the list although, as is public knowledge, the CIA runs its European operations from the U.S. Embassy in Bern. The Swiss government is at best complicit in the CIA's torture activities since it allows the CIA to operate from here. It should take action against the CIA operating out of the U.S. Embassy in Bern.

Guardian articles:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...licity-britain

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...eport-released
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  #35  
Old 10.12.2014, 13:33
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

So of many of these guys who were tortured, I imagine that would leave quite a scar on their psyche. It has probably fractured their personalities. They would probably be desensitized to a good measure of pain, and lose sense of their humanity. And where are they now? Probably running around Iraq and Syria, with ISIS, decapitating people and splitting innocent children in half. The ISIS leader may be one of them.


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The Swiss government is at best complicit in the CIA's torture activities since it allows the CIA to operate from here. It should take action against the CIA operating out of the U.S. Embassy in Bern.
That is quite a tenuous reach. The tortures occurred at interrogation time. I don't see how every country the prisoners transited through is complicit. The accountability would rest with the torturers, the program manager, and US government officials overseeing and approving it. I mean, if they took a bus, would the bus driver be accountable?
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  #36  
Old 10.12.2014, 13:40
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

so you're saying because the where tortured they are probably now terrorists (whatever that means)

does that make it ok?
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  #37  
Old 10.12.2014, 23:04
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

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The Guardian writes that 21 European countries were involved in supporting the CIA in its illegal rendition and torture activities:

Poland
Romania
Sweden
Italy
Lithuania
UK
Germany
Spain
Portugal
Belgium
Denmark
Finland
Iceland
Austria
Czech
Greece
Cyprus
Croatia
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Albania
Croatia

Switzerland is not on the list although, as is public knowledge, the CIA runs its European operations from the U.S. Embassy in Bern. The Swiss government is at best complicit in the CIA's torture activities since it allows the CIA to operate from here. It should take action against the CIA operating out of the U.S. Embassy in Bern.

Guardian articles:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...licity-britain

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...eport-released
About "the CIA runs its European operations from the U.S. Embassy in Bern"
Does it?
How do you know?
The sources you quote do not mention this?
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  #38  
Old 10.12.2014, 23:41
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

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About "the CIA runs its European operations from the U.S. Embassy in Bern"
Does it?
How do you know?
The sources you quote do not mention this?
It has been reported in several Swiss newspapers over the past several years. Last year the NZZ wrote:

"Seit 2008 kursieren Gerüchte, dass die US-Vertretung in Bern als Koordinations-Zentrale für CIA-Verbindungsbüros auf dem europäischen Festland fungiere. Offiziell bestätigt wurde dies nie."

http://www.nzz.ch/aktuell/schweiz/po...ren-1.18175952

A 2008 Blick article on the CIA's move to Bern:

"Die US-Botschaft in Bern soll zu einer Koordinations-Zentrale für die CIA-Verbindungsbüros auf dem europäischen Festland werden. Das bestätigen gut informierte Kreise."

http://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/wei...rn-id2886.html
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  #39  
Old 11.12.2014, 08:27
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

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It has been reported in several Swiss newspapers over the past several years. Last year the NZZ wrote:

"Seit 2008 kursieren Gerüchte, [...]"

"Die US-Botschaft in Bern soll zu einer Koordinations-Zentrale für die CIA-Verbindungsbüros auf dem europäischen Festland werden. Das bestätigen gut informierte Kreise."
Rumors. How about facts?
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  #40  
Old 11.12.2014, 08:39
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

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Rumors. How about facts?
How about "it does not matter"? The US embassy is legally speaking not Swiss soil. What's going on within the building is nothing the Swiss can prevent, influence or should even know about. Germany is on the list because the CIA used the existing US military infrastructure to transport some of their victims without informing the local authorities what was really going on within US transport planes.

Calling every government a collaborator is in my opinion absolutely counter productive - it waters down the expression to the point that the countries who really helped to do the illegal work are not as highlighted as they should be. Poland for example: http://america.aljazeera.com/opinion...tstorture.html

If you look at the date of the above article will you find that it is all old news - if even an EU court can make a decision before the US report is published does it mean that the facts have been absolutely clear for years. "The judgment is remarkable and unprecedented, but the facts underlying it have long been in the public domain. Since 2005, when the existence of the “black site” network — top-secret locations where the CIA imprisoned and tortured terrorist suspects — was first revealed, there has been a steady drumbeat of disclosure, and the veil of secrecy woven by the world’s pre-eminent intelligence agency has been reduced to a collection of tattered rags."
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