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  #61  
Old 12.12.2014, 11:06
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

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This affair demonstrates a systematic and institututionalised depravity almost beyond words.
But I will allow my outrage to transcend beyond anger and into something more practical, namely a wish for a suitably large and dense asteroid to burst in the air midway between Washington and New York. Thus meting out a fate on the scale that stuck the biblical cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.
So you wish that millions of innocents are killed in retribution. How, exactly, are you any different?
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  #62  
Old 12.12.2014, 11:13
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

This whole story is shameful, I am truly disgusted with my (UK) government's involvement. I naively thought we were better than this. Sure all's fair in war but this is barbaric.
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  #63  
Old 12.12.2014, 11:26
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

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This whole story is shameful, I am truly disgusted with my (UK) government's involvement. I naively thought we were better than this. Sure all's fair in war but this is barbaric.
How so? No evidence has come to light yet the proves the UK had knowledge that torture was taking place. Indeed, there's nothing that proves they were even complicit in acts of torture.

Surely it would even be to the current governments interest to leak this information as Blair and Labour were in power then. It could be used for political advantage in the same was the Democrats are using the report to give the Republicans a kicking.
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  #64  
Old 12.12.2014, 11:32
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

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How so? No evidence has come to light yet the proves the UK had knowledge that torture was taking place.
You clearly haven't been following the news then.

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The US dropped its charges against him, and eventually released him. He arrived in the United Kingdom on 23 February 2009. Together with other detainees, he filed suit against the government for collusion by MI5 and MI6 in his torture by the United States. In February 2010, the UK Court of Appeal ruled that he had been subjected to "cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment by the United States authorities".[4] in which the British Intelligence services had been complicit. The government awarded him £1 million compensation in settlement in 2011.
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  #65  
Old 12.12.2014, 11:33
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

Its a pretty brave move for any government to use the 'elite' security services as a points scoring punch bag

If I put my tin foil hat on for a minute I'd say the CIA is perfectly happy this report has come out, it will make more people hate america, and they have been a bit quite recently, they need some attacks to secure there budgets, and this report will provide them.

Mi5/6 must have nice secure budgets for the next few years
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  #66  
Old 12.12.2014, 14:12
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

The CIA has been in inner conflict for over a dozen years now. One faction wanted to focus its activities on development efforts in the world. Another faction wanted to hunt down threats. Lots of people in the CIA, and there are various visions on its mission.
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  #67  
Old 12.12.2014, 20:08
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

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The CIA has been in inner conflict for over a dozen years now. One faction wanted to focus its activities on development efforts in the world. Another faction wanted to hunt down threats. Lots of people in the CIA, and there are various visions on its mission.
Is that an excuse for their current practices ?
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  #68  
Old 12.12.2014, 21:06
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

They rarely make much excuses. Thy simply don't admit things. Which current practices? The rendition program is over 10 years old.. I'm out of the loop.
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  #69  
Old 13.12.2014, 00:17
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

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They rarely make much excuses. Thy simply don't admit things. Which current practices? The rendition program is over 10 years old.. I'm out of the loop.
Hmm. I thought it was officially ended 6 years ago?
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Old 13.12.2014, 07:36
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

.....aaand let´s go a-Godwinning, people beride the Germans for not "knowing" about the KZ´s... shoes on the other foot now and before you give me the six million yadda yadda, it´s the mechanism that counts, will peope in the future be saying: "well you knew about it so why did you not do anything?"
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  #71  
Old 13.12.2014, 08:33
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

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"well you knew about it so why did you not do anything?"
According to opinion polls do 50% of Americans think that torture is actually ok when used to protect Murica...
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  #72  
Old 13.12.2014, 10:34
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

National Assembly member Portmann has collected 83 signatures from other parliamentarians for a proposal to require the Bundesrat to take a stand on the CIA's torture activities and violations of human rights. Actions by the Bundesrat could include:
a. Proposing a resolution to the UN to condemn the CIA and the US.
b. Taking steps to hand over the CIA culprits to the War Crimes Tribunal in The Hague.
c. Summoning the US Ambassador to Switzerland for a dress-down.

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/25392350
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  #73  
Old 13.12.2014, 12:56
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

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National Assembly member Portmann has collected 83 signatures from other parliamentarians for a proposal to require the Bundesrat to take a stand on the CIA's torture activities and violations of human rights. Actions by the Bundesrat could include:
a. Proposing a resolution to the UN to condemn the CIA and the US.
b. Taking steps to hand over the CIA culprits to the War Crimes Tribunal in The Hague.
c. Summoning the US Ambassador to Switzerland for a dress-down.

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/25392350
They'll be quaking in their boots at this news.

Didn't Peter Sellers once make a film about Switzerland squaring up to the United States...?
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  #74  
Old 13.12.2014, 12:58
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

I can't imagine the US handing over anybody for a trial in the Hague. Nor can I see it subject itself to some other jurisdiction outside its own. The US has to deal with this internally.

We need two things:
1) Trials for those responsible
2) Restructure balance of power to deal with such impunity in our Government agencies.

Without these two, America is lost, the rest of the world is in grave danger.
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  #75  
Old 13.12.2014, 13:00
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

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They'll be quaking in their boots at this news.

Didn't Peter Sellers once make a film about Switzerland squaring up to the United States...?
Seriously though, Americans will not greatly care what anyone outside of America says or does. But I think it isn't so bad to put pressure on the US to confront and deal with it.
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  #76  
Old 13.12.2014, 13:21
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Re: CIA Report [interrogation/torture tactics at Guantanamo]

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National Assembly member Portmann has collected 83 signatures from other parliamentarians for a proposal to require the Bundesrat to take a stand on the CIA's torture activities and violations of human rights. Actions by the Bundesrat could include:
a. Proposing a resolution to the UN to condemn the CIA and the US.
b. Taking steps to hand over the CIA culprits to the War Crimes Tribunal in The Hague.
c. Summoning the US Ambassador to Switzerland for a dress-down.

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/25392350
Not one SVP member signed; I assume because they do not believe in human rights and have publicly stated they want Switzerland to withdraw from this convention and consequently no longer be subject to European court decisions.
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