Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 17.12.2014, 00:41
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,026
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
In recent months a group known as Pegida has sprung up Germany. Their mission is to prevent Islamisation of Europe, and it appears that they are gaining popular support with a march of 15,000 people held in Dresden just last night. They're being dismissed as a far-right movement/right wing extremist movement in the press and by politicians. When one looks closer however it seems that the marches are made up of people across the political spectrum who have genuine fear of immigration into Germany and of losing their sense of identity and culture.

It would seem they have a point. Germany accepts more asylum seekers than any other country in the world, and on top of the large Turkish community recent years have seen a massive influx of people seeking asylum from war torn countries like Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia.

This is the trend across Europe at the moment, with UKIP expected to make big gains in next years elections in the UK and the Front National also gaining support in France. This is due in part to a lack of engagement of mainstream political parties to discuss immigration.

Despite their growing popularity, UKIP is still mocked at every opportunity in the Press and on TV, which has the effect of pushing people towards them. No doubt Godwin's law will come into play when discussing Pegida, which may only increase their support. When will mainstream politics realise this and start confronting the immigration issues affecting Europe today? What will it take?


http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...many-far-right

No, Germany, per capita, accepts far less immigrants than Switzerland


And what does confronting the Immigration issues mean ? The UMP of Nicolas Sarkozy has confronted those issues many years ago, actually during the Chirac Presidency, when Sarkozy was Interior Minister and Dominique de Villepin Foreign Minister. In Germany, both the CDU-CSU-alliance and the SPD had Immigration issues high up on their Agenda. In Switzerland, also the Liberals (FDP on the right) and the Social Democrats worked on the issues for years


************************************************** *************************************


Quote:
View Post
The newly arrived immigrants often fled war and genuine hardship and are happy to find a bit of peace and be left alone. But its the second and third generation who after failing to integrate turn to radical interpretations of the religion of their parents in hate of the culture that offered them shelter.

Among the Secondos and the third Generation, the religious radicals are, whenever dangerous, a small minority. Which means that is NOT "THE" 2nd 3rd Generation, but just some of them. AND a clear majority does successfully integrate, even if some of them fail


************************************************** *********
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 17.12.2014, 02:28
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SZ
Posts: 10,116
Groaned at 237 Times in 199 Posts
Thanked 18,227 Times in 6,657 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
Before we lose the context, you are responding to a post that was in response to a post that said the people of Dresden are country bumpkins, right? So would you care to explain what the above has to do with that other than changing the topic.
Yes, Dresden is doing better than the rest of Saxony, but that does not mean that the unemployment isn't still far over average or that the GDP is near say Stuttgart or Munich. Your point is exactly?

My point was that the people who attend Pegida demonstrations in Dresden are demonstrating against Muslims while living in the part of Germany which by all accounts does not have any. And I do have the feeling that you will find few of the people who got good jobs at the one new VW factory attending Pegida... they got better things to do than to worry about non-existent muslim immigration.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 17.12.2014, 03:07
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,026
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
Yes, Dresden is doing better than the rest of Saxony, but that does not mean that the unemployment isn't still far over average or that the GDP is near say Stuttgart or Munich. Your point is exactly?

My point was that the people who attend Pegida demonstrations in Dresden are demonstrating against Muslims while living in the part of Germany which by all accounts does not have any. And I do have the feeling that you will find few of the people who got good jobs at the one new VW factory attending Pegida... they got better things to do than to worry about non-existent muslim immigration.


But now some rather "local" questions :


> which city is better off now, Dresden or Leipzig ?
> why are so many ex GDR people so xenophobe ?
> is the Links-Partei also xenophobe, or open minded ?
> which one is better off, Brandenburg&Berlin or Saxony ?
> Is Thüringen making progress or stagnating ?
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 17.12.2014, 04:14
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SZ
Posts: 10,116
Groaned at 237 Times in 199 Posts
Thanked 18,227 Times in 6,657 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
But now some rather "local" questions :
I am not Eastern German, so I probably have a rather strong bias... but since you asked:


Quote:
View Post
> which city is better off now, Dresden or Leipzig ?
I thought they are about the same. The two best cities in the east by a margin.

Quote:
View Post
> why are so many ex GDR people so xenophobe ?
I believe there is a whole bunch of reasons but the first one being ignorance - it's far easier to hate Muslims if you never really met one... hardly any Western German born after the 60s did grow up with not at least a couple of people from different cultures in their school. It's much harder to be racist when you grow up with Hakan sitting next to you and you know he is not that different from you...

A second reason is that they never had the same sort of open rehabilitation of the Nazi years we "enjoyed" in the West: The Russians wanted to build up the country asap after the war and installed a lot of former nazis in key positions who all turned into true communists in record time... after that did obviously nobody dare to speak out openly on what happened and especially who did it. So in the East there was a lot of myths on "it wasn't all bad". Funnily did the exact same happen with the communists later on. "Ostalgie" - over positive view on the regime which makes me sick...

Quote:
View Post
> is the Links-Partei also xenophobe, or open minded ?
Communists by definition believe that all humans are the same... you know, the Internationale and stuff. They are not xenophobe, but being politically rather radical often clash with foreign cultures. Or any other reasonable people. I am rather left myself but could never vote for them...

Quote:
View Post
> which one is better off, Brandenburg&Berlin or Saxony ?
Saxony.

Quote:
View Post
> Is Thüringen making progress or stagnating ?
They got themselves this year the first "red-red-green" (SPD, Linke, Gruene) government. They started in September, so it's a bit early to see how it's going. I'd be very surprised if it went smoothly...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #65  
Old 17.12.2014, 07:58
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,494
Groaned at 437 Times in 260 Posts
Thanked 7,219 Times in 2,762 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
No, Germany, per capita, accepts far less immigrants than Switzerland


And what does confronting the Immigration issues mean ? The UMP of Nicolas Sarkozy has confronted those issues many years ago, actually during the Chirac Presidency, when Sarkozy was Interior Minister and Dominique de Villepin Foreign Minister. In Germany, both the CDU-CSU-alliance and the SPD had Immigration issues high up on their Agenda. In Switzerland, also the Liberals (FDP on the right) and the Social Democrats worked on the issues for years

Erm, in case you hadn't noticed there's a new French President now. And he seems to think there's not a problem. The fact also remains that France accepts the 4th greatest number of immigrants behind the US, Germany and the UK and 3rd largest amount of assylum seekers.

http://www.thelocal.fr/20141216/immi...ollande-museum
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24636868

You're right that Germany does accept far less immigrants per capita than Switzerland, however in Switzerland at least the topic is discussed and taken seriously. I would wager that many people don't support the extreme measures proposed by the SVP, but only vote for them as they are willing to act on immigration.

Although the marches were only in Dresden, it seems to be they have the popular support of the country. Even though there are fewer Muslims in Sachsen, the mood of the whole country remains the same.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 17.12.2014, 08:07
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SZ
Posts: 10,116
Groaned at 237 Times in 199 Posts
Thanked 18,227 Times in 6,657 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
Although the marches were only in Dresden, it seems to be they have the popular support of the country. Even though there are fewer Muslims in Sachsen, the mood of the whole country remains the same.
I am sorry, but do you have ANY source on the popular support? The march was 10k people in a country of 80 Million. Pegida is a fringe movement of a fraction of a percent - the people showing up there are plain weird. Even a hooligan riot in Cologne this year got an attendance of 5k...

A satire show dressed up one of their staff as "Russia Today" journalist as the demonstrators believe that "the German mainstream media is full of lies"... but somehow seem to trust RT. See for yourself what sort of folks they have there - this clearly is not the mass movement you think it is.

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #67  
Old 17.12.2014, 08:11
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,494
Groaned at 437 Times in 260 Posts
Thanked 7,219 Times in 2,762 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
I am sorry, but do you have ANY source on the popular support? The march was 10k people in a country of 80 Million. Pegida is a fringe movement of a fraction of a percent - the people showing up there are plain weird. Even a hooligan riot in Cologne this year got an attendance of 5k...

Yes, here.

Quote:
View Post
This poll indicates a little more than half of Germans sympathizes with Pegida.
http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschla...chland-umfrage
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Loz1983 for this useful post:
  #68  
Old 17.12.2014, 08:59
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,245
Groaned at 494 Times in 376 Posts
Thanked 9,814 Times in 5,201 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
I am sorry, but do you have ANY source on the popular support? The march was 10k people in a country of 80 Million. Pegida is a fringe movement of a fraction of a percent - the people showing up there are plain weird. Even a hooligan riot in Cologne this year got an attendance of 5k...
Die Zeit Online:
Jeder Zweite sympathisiert mit Pegida

Appraising these demonstrations based on subjective interpretation of the daily realities of Dresden citizens likely misses the essential undercurrents. It may be comforting for the moment to simply ignore these and crawl back to sleep, and catch a few more hours. But you don't want this pressure building up like a bad zit waiting to pop. It can be calmly cleared up sooner, rather than waiting for a louder pop that leaves an indelible mark.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 17.12.2014, 09:01
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SZ
Posts: 10,116
Groaned at 237 Times in 199 Posts
Thanked 18,227 Times in 6,657 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
Yes, here.
Thanks! That is in short the worst questionnaire I have ever seen from a reputable source like Zeit. First question: "Do you understand people demonstrating against ISIS and the growing islamisation of German cities?"

1. If I understand people does this not mean I support them. Deducting support the way the article does is misleading at best.

2. Who the heck is demonstrating against ISIS? And who on earth is not against ISIS?

3. I learned back in university that sentences with more than 8 words are hard to follow. This is a perfect example - everyone agrees to the first bit but the second one is the difficult one...

I guess that's the sort of quality I have to get used to since people stopped paying for newspapers. If there is no money left they will leave it to some intern to come up with the stuff...
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #70  
Old 17.12.2014, 09:13
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: GL
Posts: 16,285
Groaned at 1,030 Times in 796 Posts
Thanked 42,888 Times in 13,296 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
It can be calmly cleared up sooner

How?
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 17.12.2014, 09:23
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,494
Groaned at 437 Times in 260 Posts
Thanked 7,219 Times in 2,762 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
Thanks! That is in short the worst questionnaire I have ever seen from a reputable source like Zeit. First question: "Do you understand people demonstrating against ISIS and the growing islamisation of German cities?"

1. If I understand people does this not mean I support them. Deducting support the way the article does is misleading at best.

2. Who the heck is demonstrating against ISIS? And who on earth is not against ISIS?

3. I learned back in university that sentences with more than 8 words are hard to follow. This is a perfect example - everyone agrees to the first bit but the second one is the difficult one...

I guess that's the sort of quality I have to get used to since people stopped paying for newspapers. If there is no money left they will leave it to some intern to come up with the stuff...
I know what you mean, I guess the point I was trying to make is that it's short sighted to say this is just the result of a load of right wing loonies in the east.

Quote:
View Post
How?
By acknowledging this is an issue that concerns the population. By placing stricter quotas and controls on immigration, and adhering to them.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Loz1983 for this useful post:
  #72  
Old 17.12.2014, 09:28
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,245
Groaned at 494 Times in 376 Posts
Thanked 9,814 Times in 5,201 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
How?
The Peter Principle. Given enough rope, they will hang themselves. These people will likely bang on louder for as long as they think they are being ignored. But a rational discussion should lead to the conclusion that immigrants are necessary for Deutschland. They need to come to the conclusion they don't have a better alternative.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #73  
Old 17.12.2014, 09:30
Dack Rambo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,548
Groaned at 180 Times in 107 Posts
Thanked 1,674 Times in 809 Posts
Dack Rambo has an excellent reputationDack Rambo has an excellent reputationDack Rambo has an excellent reputationDack Rambo has an excellent reputation
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
And who on earth is not against ISIS?
ISIS is a very well funded organisation so people obviously do suppport them
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 17.12.2014, 09:32
FuriousRose's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: nearby the lake
Posts: 935
Groaned at 21 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 1,003 Times in 471 Posts
FuriousRose has a reputation beyond reputeFuriousRose has a reputation beyond reputeFuriousRose has a reputation beyond reputeFuriousRose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
...By acknowledging this is an issue that concerns the population. By placing stricter quotas and controls on immigration, and adhering to them.
I remember when I firstly came to Germany, it had a relatively closed labour market. Getting work permit for non-EU person was just as difficult as it is now in Switzerland. However, this has changed, and it is even easier for a foreigner to get a permanent resident under the current permit regime in Germany, simply because of what Treverus said below:

Quote:
View Post
No it isn't cause for concern at all: The German population is shrinking as well as aging. The country as well as the economy NEEDS immigration. That many educated younger Germans leave for better jobs in Switzerland and other countries is not helping either...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank FuriousRose for this useful post:
  #75  
Old 17.12.2014, 09:32
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,494
Groaned at 437 Times in 260 Posts
Thanked 7,219 Times in 2,762 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
The Peter Principle. Given enough rope, they will hang themselves. These people will likely bang on louder for as long as they think they are being ignored. But a rational discussion should lead to the conclusion that immigrants are necessary for Deutschland. They need to come to the conclusion they don't have a better alternative.
This is what I really like about how this topic was dealt with in Switzerland. Two sides, equally headstrong on their point of view. The topic goes to referendum and there is a clear result, the subject then no longer needs to be discussed. Of course you get the odd anomalies, but generally it's very fair.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Loz1983 for this useful post:
  #76  
Old 17.12.2014, 09:32
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: GL
Posts: 16,285
Groaned at 1,030 Times in 796 Posts
Thanked 42,888 Times in 13,296 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
By acknowledging this is an issue that concerns the population. By placing stricter quotas and controls on immigration, and adhering to them.

Yeah, but it's not immigration itself that bothers these chaps - it's Muslims, despite the fact that there are hardly any Muslims in Europe and German culture - especially in the part of Germany in which these chaps are demonstrating - is not threatened in any way by those Muslims.


As I said before: Islam is a barely significant presence on this continent, yet it is given an outrageous level of attention by both the whiners of the Left and the easily-startled of the Right.


It's daft. I honestly don't get what all the fuss is about.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
  #77  
Old 17.12.2014, 09:35
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 4,575
Groaned at 148 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 5,914 Times in 3,006 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
Thanks! That is in short the worst questionnaire I have ever seen from a reputable source like Zeit.
What's more, the questions imply the expexted answer, and that will indeed affect the results:
Phrasings such as "are you of the opinion that DE is currently taking in too many refugees?" will get much more "too many" than, for instance, "are you of the opinion that DE should take in more refugees?"

Edit:
However, I think it's a poor strategy to simply negate the reactions as irrelevant. CH mostly did that during the last twenty years, and I'm sure that played a major role in the rise of SVP.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #78  
Old 17.12.2014, 09:44
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 4,575
Groaned at 148 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 5,914 Times in 3,006 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
The topic goes to referendum and there is a clear result, the subject then no longer needs to be discussed.
You coulnd't be more wrong, immigration has been an issue in CH for at least 50 years, and it keeps recurring.

Starting with the "Schwarzenbach Initiative" (Überfremdungsinitiative) that was voted on in 1970. The referendum wanted to limit foreigners 10%, and it got a vey respectable 46% Yes votes.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #79  
Old 17.12.2014, 09:51
Dack Rambo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,548
Groaned at 180 Times in 107 Posts
Thanked 1,674 Times in 809 Posts
Dack Rambo has an excellent reputationDack Rambo has an excellent reputationDack Rambo has an excellent reputationDack Rambo has an excellent reputation
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
You coulnd't be more wrong, immigration has been an issue in CH for at least 50 years, and it keeps recurring.
So true. There are so many anti Ausländer stories in the Swiss German media that I no longer read Swiss German newspapers nor watch Swiss German TV.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Dack Rambo for this useful post:
  #80  
Old 17.12.2014, 09:53
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,494
Groaned at 437 Times in 260 Posts
Thanked 7,219 Times in 2,762 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pegida marches against Islamisation of Europe

Quote:
View Post
I remember when I firstly came to Germany, it had a relatively closed labour market. Getting work permit for non-EU person was just as difficult as it is now in Switzerland. However, this has changed, and it is even easier for a foreigner to get a permanent resident under the current permit regime in Germany, simply because of what Treverus said below:
But does that not make it worse? If you're having to replace your own population with immigrants, then you reduce the ability to pass your own culture on. Germany has a massive aging population which needs to be cared for, this is could be another discussion entirely, but the result of this is that the proportion of young immigrants to young Germans is greater than that of the population as a whole. It's the young that will feel the effects the most.

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, but it's not immigration itself that bothers these chaps - it's Muslims, despite the fact that there are hardly any Muslims in Europe and German culture - especially in the part of Germany in which these chaps are demonstrating - is not threatened in any way by those Muslims.


As I said before: Islam is a barely significant presence on this continent, yet it is given an outrageous level of attention by both the whiners of the Left and the easily-startled of the Right.


It's daft. I honestly don't get what all the fuss is about.
That the Muslim population has doubled in the last 20 years? That despite 5% of the population being Muslim, 10% of all newborns in Germany are to Muslim parents? That white flight is taking place across many European cities? It may not be a big fuss today, but it will be in the future unless something is done.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Loz1983 for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
europe, germany, immigration, islamisation, pegida




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swiss protest against tightening of asylum law The Local Swiss news via The Local 0 25.06.2012 11:34
Not Europe, Brits divided. And they are outside of decision making. Europe is united kashif International affairs/politics 97 06.01.2012 10:59
Vevey Marchés Folkloriques Blonaybear Commercial 1 08.07.2011 09:36
Hello from North of Europe :) Emacs Introductions 2 10.05.2010 10:41
The grounding of Europe BoZz Jokes/funnies 0 20.04.2010 06:48


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0