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  #161  
Old 08.01.2015, 14:13
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

I'll add another extreme one. Strip any people who commit terrorist acts of their nationality and send them off to ISIS to get a real taste of what they think Islam is.

Asking Muslims to define Islam is like asking Christians to define Christianity. Everyone has their own ideas - which frankly should be fine. People don't all have to believe exactly the same thing and unless religion is involved nobody expects them to.

I think a major step would be for the ordinary Muslims in the world to come out on the streets in their thousands and protest these killings in the same way that they've protested over cartoons about Mohammed. Until they do they tacitly condon these attacks. Yes, they've all verbally condemned the attacks, but to these people that's just words, nothing more. To actually see that the Muslim majority is against everything they stand for might get it through their heads that killing someone just because you don't like what they say/do isn't the answer.
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  #162  
Old 08.01.2015, 14:14
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Here are some short and long term solutions proposed by different people for Europe:

- reinstate death penalty, Marine Le Pen (extreme right in France)
- Block muslim immigration to Europe (several right-wing groups in France/Germany)
- Move muslim population based in Europe to other areas (Zemmour, Finkielkraut in France)
- Banning of Islam (coran, mosques, halal food etc…) in France/Europe (Christine Tasin, Univ.Prof in France)
- Put a policeman behind every potential terrorist as defined by the profile
- ask the muslim community to become a “big brother” to police and denounce any potential suspect
- make Islam a state-controlled institution

any other options you can see?
Great recipes for a total disaster....not a single feasible "solution", this goes in the direction as in Germany 80 years ago, just replace Jew with Muslim...

and how will the death penalty stop any fanatics of doing this kind of things where themselves are prepared to die for their "cause"?

Also how will this list stop christian fanatics like Breivik? (you know the guy who shot 70 children in Norway)

Isolating muslims will only make it worse, integration and mutual respect is a good start

Stop killing 1000s of innocents in Iraq and Afghanistan
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  #163  
Old 08.01.2015, 14:18
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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any other options you can see?
Deport and remove citizenship for the whole family of these wits, they must have known that their close ones were going to Syria etc and were going radical. Why didn't they go to the police?

No other way to exterminate these brainwashed kids.
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  #164  
Old 08.01.2015, 14:22
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

going to syria isn't a crime.
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  #165  
Old 08.01.2015, 14:23
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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going to syria isn't a crime.
at this time of the year? Weather must be nice
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  #166  
Old 08.01.2015, 14:25
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Deport and remove citizenship for the whole family of these wits, they must have known that their close ones were going to Syria etc and were going radical. Why didn't they go to the police?

No other way to exterminate these brainwashed kids.
Deport them to where??.. they are FRENCH
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  #167  
Old 08.01.2015, 14:26
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

if you treat people like children, guess what, they behave like children

treat angry young men like terrorists and guess what??
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  #168  
Old 08.01.2015, 14:30
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Given the clear and present danger of radicalised youth returning from conflict zones, I think a more sensible approach would be the outreach one. Brainwashing and radicalisation are reversible processes. Some of the best Muslim youth workers in the UK are all ex members of Hizb u Tahrir and Al Muhajiroun, because they speak with experience and authority.
In the interest of prevention, these should be heavily monitored and surveilled. I wouldn't mind closer surveillance, and loss of privacy, for the purpose of public safety. Personal privacy liberties are premised on a civilized society, and apparently, we don't really have a civilized society anymore.

Ironically, the suspects were all already previously known. They were identified in news articles dating back from 2005. Here is one NYTimes article: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/05/in...osition=&_r=1&

There was one article where these guys tried to go to Syria, got caught, and stated how pleased they were to have been prevented from going. Sounded like they were headed for reform, but apparently, terrorism is not a belief or conviction. It is simply a action and decision anyone can decide to take on, in any given day.

The only thing I could really hope for in all this is that everyone realize that naivete can have devastating effects nowadays. I think everyone should be honest about all this so we actually have a basis for real conversations, and actually have some semblance of a civil society.
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  #169  
Old 08.01.2015, 14:36
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

it really doesn't matter what the west do, all the while we (the royal we) are bombing people in 3rd world countries day after day this kind of thing will continue.

12 innocent people dying in a drone attack in pakistan wouldn't even make the news nowadays.

see the problem?
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  #170  
Old 08.01.2015, 14:42
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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it really doesn't matter what the west do, all the while we (the royal we) are bombing people in 3rd world countries day after day this kind of thing will continue.

12 innocent people dying in a drone attack in pakistan wouldn't even make the news nowadays.

see the problem?
I don't seem to remember any drone attacks or bombings before 9/11.
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  #171  
Old 08.01.2015, 14:43
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Free speech is not absolute, in that same country Charlie Hebdo could not write 'the Holocaust was a myth' or they would be shut down and their editor thrown in jail... and rightly so because such nonsense would only feed antisemitism.

So either you have complete freedom to say and do as you please and to hell with the consequences (no matter how violent) or you choose a different way to make your point. Most other left wing magazines in France are able to lampoon militant Islam without having their offices firebombed (2011), staff threatened or this latest outrage.
Well I assume there is some process that French Muslims could follow to request a law to ban such cartoons; at least that would provide a platform for debate.

There are fanatics in every religion; as mentioned there was the Scandinavian shooting of so many children also the US Ohio bombing and many other examples.
Attempting to take action against the members of a whole religion is self defeating. Either it generates more fanatics or drives the members "underground" or both.
It must be faced that it is practically impossible to identify such "lone wolves" before they act; the best that can be hoped for is to have swift and successful reaction by the police after such an event.
Better weapons control would help; how do people get their hands on such powerful weapons?
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  #172  
Old 08.01.2015, 14:47
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I don't seem to remember any drone attacks or bombings before 9/11.
you're right, we didn't invade Iraq before 9/11, or support the Afgans against russia, or promise the kurds help if they overthrow sadam then leave them high and dry to be massacred, or support regimes the routinely persicuted there own people. No, we only did all that AFTER 9/11
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  #173  
Old 08.01.2015, 14:51
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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you're right, we didn't invade Iraq before 9/11, or support the Afgans against russia, or promise the kurds help if they overthrow sadam then leave them high and dry to be massacred, or support regimes the routinely persicuted there own people. No, we only did all that AFTER 9/11
I don't remember invading Iraq before 9/11 either . Are you saying the rise of extremism is the West's fault?
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  #174  
Old 08.01.2015, 14:53
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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After the strong emotions triggered by the barbarian attack on Charlie Hebdo, now comes the time to think about solutions to stop this terrorist madness.
On French TV yesterday some asked the muslim community leaders to show determination and take action against those terrorists and ideologies. Let’s state some facts and describe some solutions discussed by different people already.

Profile of the authors of those terrorists attacks
- Young males (20-40)
- 2nd-3rd generation immigrants or recent converts
- have already some social problems and even criminal records
- traveled to armed conflicts areas (syria, iraq, afghanistan, bosnia, tchechenia,…)
- often become radicalized after spending time in prison
- use internet/social media for information or recruitment
- capacity to use heavy weapons
- close link to criminal groups to finance activities or to source weapons

Given that there are probably 1000s matching this profile now in Syria/Iraq and that at some point they will be back in Europe we can only fear to see more of these murder attacks.

So what can be done? How can we immunize the society against this downward spiral?

Here are some short and long term solutions proposed by different people for Europe:

- reinstate death penalty, Marine Le Pen (extreme right in France)But these fanatics see it as an honour to die?
- Block muslim immigration to Europe (several right-wing groups in France/Germany)But these fanactics are often second or third generation so are already here!
- Move muslim population based in Europe to other areas (Zemmour, Finkielkraut in France)But they could still take transport to their targets??
- Banning of Islam (coran, mosques, halal food etc…) in France/Europe (Christine Tasin, Univ.Prof in France)Quick way to create a billion new enemies
- Put a policeman behind every potential terrorist as defined by the profileWhere would you find all the extra police? Unemployed Musim youths
- ask the muslim community to become a “big brother” to police and denounce any potential suspect
- make Islam a state-controlled institution And state controlled institutions work so well

any other options you can see?
Mycomments in the quote, hopefully in Blue
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Old 08.01.2015, 14:56
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I don't remember invading Iraq before 9/11 either . Are you saying the rise of extremism is the West's fault?

the first iraq war?

who elses fault is it?? 'we' armed them, 'we' trained them, 'we' are quite happy to let them, nay, encourage them, to fight amongst themselves, 'we' protect the ones in favour on any given day, and 'we' screw them if they dare to say no to there western masters.
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  #176  
Old 08.01.2015, 14:57
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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it really doesn't matter what the west do, all the while we (the royal we) are bombing people in 3rd world countries day after day this kind of thing will continue.

12 innocent people dying in a drone attack in pakistan wouldn't even make the news nowadays.

see the problem?
But this was a case of French fanatics attacking a French newspaper; where is the link to drones, third world, Pakistan
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  #177  
Old 08.01.2015, 14:57
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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It must be faced that it is practically impossible to identify such "lone wolves" before they act; the best that can be hoped for is to have swift and successful reaction by the police after such an event.
Better weapons control would help; how do people get their hands on such powerful weapons?
Yes, unfortunately, this may become a necessity - the militarization of civilian police forces. And if it shall continue on, it may require more extensive security implementations. This will raise the need for a security industry in Europe. As much as we had hope to have evolved beyond certain levels of violence, the only point these terrorists have made is to drag us backwards. Their very presence of that element here means we were all only dreaming about peace and security.
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  #178  
Old 08.01.2015, 14:57
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Deport them to where??.. they are FRENCH
To their Islamic state of choice. If they are not happy in France, why they stay there?
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  #179  
Old 08.01.2015, 15:00
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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But this was a case of French fanatics attacking a French newspaper; where is the link to drones, third world, Pakistan

its pretty easy to radicalise someone when you're killing there 'brother'
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  #180  
Old 08.01.2015, 15:01
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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To their Islamic state of choice. If they are not happy in France, why they stay there?
Did you miss the part where they believe that their islamic state of choice IS France.

Any more one liners you`d care to enlighten us with?
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