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  #221  
Old 08.01.2015, 21:51
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

or in some parts of Switzerland, like the upper Valais/Wallis

A friend of mine has had to convert to Catholicism as she would just not be accepted unless she did- and no non Catholic can be buried in the village cemetary, and that is in lower Valais, near Verbier
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  #222  
Old 08.01.2015, 22:13
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

I think most of these stories and claims of Christian intolerance in Europe and the USA are a bit overstated, to be honest. I managed to survive long enough in ultra-traditional rural Greece as an atheist without any problems whatsoever.

Of course, I kept my gob shut on the subject of religion and went along with local traditions, which probably helped. I should imagine someone with an axe to grind would have had a more 'interesting' experience.
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  #223  
Old 08.01.2015, 22:14
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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You ought to try to say you're a non-believer in the U.S.
In the real U.S., or an imaginary one? What would happen? They give you a talk show channel? About 30% of the US claim to be unbelievers.


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or in some parts of Switzerland, like the upper Valais/Wallis

A friend of mine has had to convert to Catholicism as she would just not be accepted unless she did- and no non Catholic can be buried in the village cemetary, and that is in lower Valais, near Verbier
You mean she lied so she can get a free burial plot, instead of paying for one herself.


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I should imagine someone with an axe to grind would have had a more 'embellished' experience.
correction

Last edited by Phos; 08.01.2015 at 22:26.
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  #224  
Old 08.01.2015, 22:38
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I think you'll find its economic opportunities rather than anything else driving immigration from North Africa.. and besides Algeria and Morocco aren't exactly paragons of religious oppression. There are more synagogues in Casablanca than the entire French part of Switzerland.
Of course it's the economy (actually - the lack of it) which drives Muslim immigration from the economic & cultural disaster which is the Muslim world. But they wouldn't be coming if Muslim were so horribly oppresed in the Evil west - which your dear Dr. Cole is eager smear.

You would find that most Jews were driven out of Morocco - In 1948, approximately 265,000 Jews lived in Morocco. Around 2,500 live there now , that paragon of Tolerance, and that the Synagogues are empty.

Get your facts right.
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  #225  
Old 08.01.2015, 22:50
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Of course it's the economy (actually - the lack of it) which drives Muslim immigration from the economic & cultural disaster which is the Muslim world. But they wouldn't be coming if Muslim were so horribly oppresed in the Evil west - which your dear Dr. Cole is eager smear.

You would find that most Jews were driven out of Morocco - In 1948, approximately 265,000 Jews lived in Morocco. Around 2,500 live there now , that paragon of Tolerance, and that the Synagogues are empty.

Get your facts right.
Mohamed V King of Morocco refused to implement the anti-semitic Vichy rules during World War II. He refused to distinguish between his subjects. He even asked to have yellow patch sent to him and his family. At a time where in France the Vichy government was doing roundups to catch jews and send them to camps he defended his jewish subjects.
Shimon Perez proposed to have Mohamed V nominated as Righteous among the Nations
Please get YOUR facts right before and stop polluting this thread with off-topic posts. Start another thread to host your bitterness.
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  #226  
Old 08.01.2015, 22:52
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

As chance would have it, I've been in Paris for the last couple of days. Flew over just after the shooting for some meetings.

One of my business acquaintance's son's best friend (age 21) was one of the murdered victims. It can be a small world when tragedies happen so close to home.

I didn't see any of the solidaity gatherings last night, but I can tell you that there's not so much an air of shock or hatred, rather one of sheer disbelief in the event and complete faith that the perpetrators will be caught.

You can waffle on all about faith and religion, but when it comes right down to the crunch, I believe that anyone who carries out these type of executions does so because they harbor a bloodlust and violent nature in their character which they act out under any pretense suitable to fulfill their depravity. There is no defense for what happened. Period.
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  #227  
Old 08.01.2015, 22:54
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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No, no, no. I think she means especially tolerant to Muslims and Islam. Question, insult, ridicule and denigrate all other beliefs by all means, but just don't raise an inkling of a doubt about Islam. It apparently causes a morality system crash with its adherents, and they lose their peace.

And by the way, don't even ask about tolerance in any Muslim country for non-Believers. Peace and tolerance is only for other Muslims, maybe; unless others convert or pay a special tax that will allow them to be considered somewhat human.

Just follow, obey and don't question, because it is a religion of peace.
Every Muslim that I've ever met and have been fortunate enough to have a real conversation with has never expressed any intolerance toward the fact that I do not, in any way, follow Islam. I worked for a Muslim man for four years, and he was one of the nicest, funniest and most down-to-earth people I have ever met. I'm sure there are many Muslims out there who realize that we, in the West, also tend to follow the ideologies of the countries/cultures that we have been born into. Perhaps you don't want to accept that, because it contradicts your own assumptions about Muslims and may not justify your dislike and distrust of Muslims in general, but how can you really expect that there is not diversity among the roughly 1.6 billion Muslims in the world? Obviously, not all of them are jihadists and wish you dead.

It's the same with Christianity. There are some who do believe that every non-believer will burn in hell, etc. and who show very little tolerance toward non-believers. And there are some who label themselves as "Christians" but don't make a point of attacking the beliefs of other religions or accusing them of sinning because they are not Christian.

There are plenty of "liberal Muslims" out there. And I would say the very same about Christians. I myself am agnostic in that I think that, if there is a god, it is probably far beyond the reaches of human understanding. But I can assure you that if I came across a thread that was repeatedly attacking and/or generalizing all Buddhists or Christians, etc., I would probably be defending them as well. The reason why you have witnessed me defend Muslims here is because that is the religion that has been most focused upon in this thread... and also the religion that I think is often the most ridiculed and misunderstood in the West.

Last edited by Pancakes; 08.01.2015 at 23:16.
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  #228  
Old 08.01.2015, 22:56
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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You would find that most Jews were driven out of Morocco - In 1948, approximately 265,000 Jews lived in Morocco. Around 2,500 live there now , that paragon of Tolerance, and that the Synagogues are empty.

Get your facts right.
Where did they go?... Israel

We can talk about the different waves, but significant numbers were coaxed to emigrate by Israeli agents with the promise of a better life in the fledgling state. Nothing to do with being 'driven out', in fact King Mohammed V prohibited the emigration of his country's Jews in the mid-50s.
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  #229  
Old 08.01.2015, 23:23
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Phos: You mean she lied so she can get a free burial plot, instead of paying for one herself.

Nope- how dare you presume? She did it properly, went through all the instructions, baptism, etc- not because she wanted a free plot- but because she wanted to be buried with her husband IN THE VILLAGE CHURCH cemetary, where only Catholics can be buried- and not somewhere else on a council cemetary. Now I cannot fathom why this is important to her- but it is never here nor there- her choice I think.
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  #230  
Old 08.01.2015, 23:41
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Muslims population in 2014: 2.08 billion.

So can we stop talking about what Muslims think, act and feel?

Can we just stop and think about the fact that each Muslim of this 2.08 billion have their own personality, feelings and views?

How many are out there killing people on this 2.08 billion numbers? Potential included? 100? 1000? 10 000?

On 2.08 billion???

Perspective people, perspective. Stop talking like every Muslim is a potential terrorist.

Last edited by Nil; 08.01.2015 at 23:53.
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  #231  
Old 08.01.2015, 23:43
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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In the real U.S., or an imaginary one? What would happen? They give you a talk show channel? About 30% of the US claim to be unbelievers
Really? I see figures between 2% and 8%.

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According to the Pew Forum, less than 2% of the U.S. population describes itself as atheist
Away from the north east and west coasts I would completely agree with Tom
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  #232  
Old 08.01.2015, 23:56
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Really? I see figures between 2% and 8%.

Away from the north east and west coasts I would completely agree with Tom
Have you folks actually been to the US, had a conversation about religion, and state you do not believe? I suspect the worse case is you get invited to a bake sale at church if anyone cared about it at all.

Gallup: State of the States: Importance of Religion

PEW: “Nones” on the Rise: One-in-Five Adults Have No Religious Affiliation

After they spit out their chewing tobacco, sling their six-shooter back into their holster.

Oh, but you meant the other U.S., right?
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  #233  
Old 09.01.2015, 00:07
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Guardian Media Group has pledged £100k donation to Charlie Hebdo to help ensure it's not silenced. Google giving $300k.
That's nice solidarity.
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  #234  
Old 09.01.2015, 00:12
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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In the real U.S., or an imaginary one? What would happen? They give you a talk show channel? About 30% of the US claim to be unbelievers.
No, the real one - where I've worked. Several times a day in fact from work colleagues to taxi drivers etc. etc.

No axe to grind by the way. I've never said I'm atheist.


In Muslim countries - the only people who bothered me about religion were Christians again but to be fair, they probably thought they had found a kindred spirit in me.

Anyway, this is off-topic. I was only originally replying to your ridiculous post which may perhaps only apply to Saudi Arabia which is, let's face it, a pretty special type of Muslim country:

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And by the way, don't even ask about tolerance in any Muslim country for non-Believers. Peace and tolerance is only for other Muslims, maybe; unless others convert or pay a special tax that will allow them to be considered somewhat human.
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  #235  
Old 09.01.2015, 00:18
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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In Muslim countries - the only people who bothered me about religion were Christians again but to be fair, they probably thought they had found a kindred spirit in me.
No, they probably just figured that you needed salvation.
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  #236  
Old 09.01.2015, 00:25
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Stop talking like every Muslim is a potential terrorist.
Who said that?
I've tried to read all replies here and couldn't find anything like this. Perhaps it's your anticipation.
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  #237  
Old 09.01.2015, 00:33
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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In Muslim countries - the only people who bothered me about religion were Christians again but to be fair, they probably thought they had found a kindred spirit in me.

Anyway, this is off-topic. I was only originally replying to your ridiculous post which may perhaps only apply to Saudi Arabia which is, let's face it, a pretty special type of Muslim country:

Hmmm, you must be blissful, or just very conspicuous looking

Religious restrictions index: how do countries compare?

U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom: 10 of 15 worst countries for religious intolerance are Muslim
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  #238  
Old 09.01.2015, 00:44
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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or in some parts of Switzerland, like the upper Valais/Wallis

A friend of mine has had to convert to Catholicism as she would just not be accepted unless she did- and no non Catholic can be buried in the village cemetary, and that is in lower Valais, near Verbier
But can you compare not being able to be buried in the cemetery of your choice to being shot dead?
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  #239  
Old 09.01.2015, 00:51
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Cartoonists strike back

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  #240  
Old 09.01.2015, 00:51
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But can you compare not being able to be buried in the cemetery of your choice to being shot dead?
Like this man in Pakistan earlier today: Man accused of blasphemy shot dead

Sure, now you can say he's in peace.
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