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  #241  
Old 08.01.2015, 23:52
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Europeans are (still) treated (fairly) well in oil-rich Dubai.

Let's see how you fare there with an Indian passport.

Except that Dubai is NOT oil-rich but has just narrowly enough oil for its own consumption for the time being


Look at shops and transport companies and taxi companies and petrol stations, where you can find Indians and Pakistanis in all relevant positions

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Of course it's the economy (actually - the lack of it) which drives Muslim immigration from the economic & cultural disaster which is the Muslim world. But they wouldn't be coming if Muslim were so horribly oppresed in the Evil west - which your dear Dr. Cole is eager smear.

You would find that most Jews were driven out of Morocco - In 1948, approximately 265,000 Jews lived in Morocco. Around 2,500 live there now , that paragon of Tolerance, and that the Synagogues are empty.

Get your facts right.

The Arab World has made tremendous progress in regard to the economy and to the infrastructure (health, education, public transport) but the progress is eaten up by the population growth. Look at Egypt which in 1967 had some 16 mio inhabitants and now has more than 90. Or Algeria and Morocco who in 1967 had less than 12 mio each and now each more than 35


If the 2500 Jews of Morocco went to the synagogues regularily, the places would NOT be empty

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I think most of these stories and claims of Christian intolerance in Europe and the USA are a bit overstated, to be honest. I managed to survive long enough in ultra-traditional rural Greece as an atheist without any problems whatsoever.

Of course, I kept my gob shut on the subject of religion and went along with local traditions, which probably helped. I should imagine someone with an axe to grind would have had a more 'interesting' experience.

Since a Greek Orthodox priest in Chernossisos gave me a comprehensive instruction about Greek wines, I see them in a more differentiating way

Last edited by 3Wishes; 09.01.2015 at 09:11. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #242  
Old 09.01.2015, 08:10
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Since a Greek Orthodox priest in Chernossisos gave me a comprehensive instruction about Greek wines, I see them in a more differentiating way
I, on the other hand, cannot picture an Orthodox priest (Greek or otherwise)in other way than giving comprehensive instructions about wines and stronger beverages. (when not about the ahem, charity box)
I think DB took them too seriously.
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  #243  
Old 09.01.2015, 08:31
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Turkey let recently to build (and not just restore) a christian church. A first since a hundred years. 'Tis is infinitely more tolerant than any of the Emirates.
oh yes, the government permits the construction of a church and it clears their past record?

Erdogan: "They called me an Armenian!"
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  #244  
Old 09.01.2015, 08:51
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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One of my business acquaintance's son's best friend (age 21) was one of the murdered victims.
Are you sure you have the right end of your business acquaintance's stick?

None of the 12 victims were that young.

My apologies in advance if I've been a numpty and somehow mis interpreted your sentence, but I have re-read it several times, and it does seem to suggest that one of the dead is a 21 year old friend of the son of an acquaintance of yours.

I don't mean to be funny/pedantic, but that basic facts are straight is important, isn't it?
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  #245  
Old 09.01.2015, 09:02
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Where did they go?... Israel

We can talk about the different waves, but significant numbers were coaxed to emigrate by Israeli agents with the promise of a better life in the fledgling state. Nothing to do with being 'driven out', in fact King Mohammed V prohibited the emigration of his country's Jews in the mid-50s.

Many Jews left Morocco to France, where they are now quite succesful and don't shoot journalists even when they publish caricatures like



People are not "coaxed" to leave the country they have lived in for centuries, a long time before Islamic occupation - They left because Morocco was (and is) a basket case country with very low chances of a decent life.
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  #246  
Old 09.01.2015, 09:22
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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oh yes, the government permits the construction of a church and it clears their past record?

Erdogan: "They called me an Armenian!"
spot on, thanks
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  #247  
Old 09.01.2015, 09:43
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

sounds like the end game is being played out,

police chasing a car and shots being fired
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  #248  
Old 09.01.2015, 09:44
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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sounds like the end game is being played out,

police chasing a car and shots being fired
Watching it now.. Looks like it's all happening .. Hostages and gunshots.
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  #249  
Old 09.01.2015, 09:50
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

they really like stealing crap cars, as its the last car they'll ever drive you'd have though they would want to go out in style.

hostages not good
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  #250  
Old 09.01.2015, 09:55
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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And you'll also see a population that cannot speak freely, and so cannot think freely, and so cannot create and innovate, and it shows in what they produce in their lives, and how they treat each other. Only thing left for them to do is to try to pull everybody else down to their same retarded level.
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you're absolutely right, the answer here is to cow-tow to violence, barbarism and irrationality.



if you travel to the parts of the world governed by institutionalized Islam, you will find remarkably little interest for "peace" or "understanding" with the "western world". and I used the word "institutionalized" intentionally, there is no more intrinsically flawed about Islam than there is about Judaism, Christianity or any other organized faith, but there is very definitely a disconnect between the way Islam has been institutionalized in parts of the world and the "western world".

if you'd like, of course, you can stroll the streets of Riyadh and ask around and see how much "understanding" you find.
both excellent comments, thanks very much, my only minor disagreement is that the regime of say Saudi Arabia is primarily concerned with staying in power at any cost, the "Islam" is just the wrapping.
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  #251  
Old 09.01.2015, 10:02
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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they really like stealing crap cars, as its the last car they'll ever drive you'd have though they would want to go out in style.

hostages not good
100s of journalists with their cars and entourage and wanabe journalists with i-phones getting in the way of the operations!
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  #252  
Old 09.01.2015, 10:03
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Seems they are surrounded now in a shop.. People injured, shots fired etc
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  #253  
Old 09.01.2015, 10:29
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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both excellent comments, thanks very much, my only minor disagreement is that the regime of say Saudi Arabia is primarily concerned with staying in power at any cost, the "Islam" is just the wrapping.
could not possibly agree more, and I wish that, instead of incessantly debating "Islam" or "Muslims", my own country would stop its 80+ year policy of economically supporting totalitarianism in Saudi and elsewhere in the region.
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  #254  
Old 09.01.2015, 10:44
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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could not possibly agree more, and I wish that, instead of incessantly debating "Islam" or "Muslims", my own country would stop its 80+ year policy of economically supporting totalitarianism in Saudi and elsewhere in the region.
Is it possible they also supported like, you know, terrorist organisations in the region as long as it served their purpose?
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  #255  
Old 09.01.2015, 11:01
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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both excellent comments, thanks very much, my only minor disagreement is that the regime of say Saudi Arabia is primarily concerned with staying in power at any cost, the "Islam" is just the wrapping.
Maybe within Saudi, it's a case of the cynics at the top profiting from the naivety of the mass of useful idiots.

But Saudis' sponsoring of terrorist organisations outside its borders surely has little to do with staying in power as surely any negative fallout from these activities does more to destabliszie them than protect them. To me it shows they believe their own lies and that their interpretation of Islam is thus more than just a cynical ploy of manipulation.
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  #256  
Old 09.01.2015, 11:10
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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could not possibly agree more, and I wish that, instead of incessantly debating "Islam" or "Muslims", my own country would stop its 80+ year policy of economically supporting totalitarianism in Saudi and elsewhere in the region.
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Is it possible they also supported like, you know, terrorist organisations in the region as long as it served their purpose?
If you aren't aware of its history, and of its local cultures, and can't be bothered to read about it for your understanding, then I suppose you might try entertainment.



The Saudis have actually been reliable allies that have honored their agreements. Very few groups in the region have been able to hold their end of agreements. Relationships are like that sometimes. You don't go into them judgemental. So they weren't judged by Western values, though that would have been a different allegation of racist ethnocentricity.


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To me it shows they believe their own lies and that their interpretation of Islam is thus more than just a cynical ploy of manipulation.
As holders of the birthplace of Islam, when they say what they do is the genuinity of Islam, how and why can a non-Muslim argue with that?
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  #257  
Old 09.01.2015, 11:10
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Maybe within Saudi, it's a case of the cynics at the top profiting from the naivety of the mass of useful idiots.

But Saudis' sponsoring of terrorist organisations outside its borders surely has little to do with staying in power as surely any negative fallout from these activities does more to destabliszie them than protect them. To me it shows they believe their own lies and that their interpretation of Islam is thus more than just a cynical ploy of manipulation.
harsh comment: "the naivety of the mass of useful idiots". I've lived in Saudi, if you're a local and have never been let out how could you possibly not be "naive" or an "idiot"?

I couldn't say how religious the narrow ruling elite is in Saudi, but you're right, but many probably do believe in Islam or their interpretation of Islam
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  #258  
Old 09.01.2015, 11:12
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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they really like stealing crap cars, as its the last car they'll ever drive you'd have though they would want to go out in style.

hostages not good
Brilliant!!
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  #259  
Old 09.01.2015, 11:17
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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As holders of the birthplace of Islam, when they say what they do is the genuinity of Islam, how and why can a non-Muslim argue with that?
haha, yes, the ruling family wants to keep control of the oil money so they do what they have to to make it work
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Old 09.01.2015, 11:18
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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As holders of the birthplace of Islam, when they say what they do is the genuinity of Islam, how and why can a non-Muslim argue with that?
By that measure, shouldn't the Israeli government be the final authority on Christian dogma, or to be fair, the Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem?
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