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Old 09.01.2015, 14:39
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings



Interesting debate on the matter here.

Apologies if previously posted.

I wonder if Sky deliberately got the crazy guy on to further stir tensions as he clearly has a few screws loose.
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  #302  
Old 09.01.2015, 14:45
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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they won't leave that building alive. They already announced that they want to die as martyr. Same scenario as Merah in Toulouse 3 years ago.

the bombers in the US soon decided they preferred to live when push came to shove
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  #303  
Old 09.01.2015, 14:47
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Perhaps, but it's supposed to be constructive criticism as well, designed to provoke thoughtful discussion. Some of the cartoons I've seen from Charlie were only intended to be provocative and, as the author says, just trolling.
The author is obviously an idiot as he can't distinguish between the internet and printed media. Trolling from a magazine? Jesus Christ.
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  #304  
Old 09.01.2015, 14:47
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Perhaps, but it's supposed to be constructive criticism as well, designed to provoke thoughtful discussion.
Not necessarily. If with constructive you mean to imply that one shouldn't criticise anything if you cannot suggest a solution, then I disagree. It also takes people to highlight issues (often through gross exaggeration) so that others can think about solutions, or at least suggest why the initial criticism is misplaced (demonstarting that there isn't actually a problem is also a solution of sorts).

Throughout the ages it has been the role of court jesters, cartoonist and related roles to highlight failings, not to role out the blueprints for fixing them.

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Some of the cartoons I've seen from Charlie were only intended to be provocative and, as the author says, just trolling.
I agree, some of it was pure trolling. But what may be trolling to one man may to another be the highlighting of an error or weakness. Consider Borat for example. Some may consider he was the greatest troll of all time (which didn't prevent them from laughing) whereas other may think here or there he exposed some double standards that deserved to be exposed.

But even if there is no justification for what they did, surely the best treatment for trolls is to not rise to the bait.
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Old 09.01.2015, 14:48
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Horror scenario in porte de Vincennes: suspect with heavy weapons in kosher grocery. Hostages held (women and children). It's a nightmare.
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  #306  
Old 09.01.2015, 14:48
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

this place wouldn't exist if trolling was punishable by death

No one, NO ONE deserves to be shot for taking the piss out of religion
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  #307  
Old 09.01.2015, 14:51
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I hope the police/army are under strict instructions to do everything in their power to bring them in alive and to answer for what they have done and then spend the rest of their lives in a tiny cell reflecting on their cowardice without the faintest hope of even a glimpse of a virgin.
With a cellmate named Bubba who needs a new bitch or two.

Tom
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  #308  
Old 09.01.2015, 14:53
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Just me or does something smell fishy about the identity of the Hebdo killers.. I mean the fact that in the car on the scene, the police immediately found jihadi flags and his ID card..

Really .. Would a "trained assassin" leave his ID card in the car?? Some kind of set up? Just pure chance? Linked to the other shooting yesterday and the hostages now in the kosher shop?
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  #309  
Old 09.01.2015, 14:53
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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With a cellmate named Bubba who needs a new bitch or two.

Tom

does it specifically say the martyr will get the virgins, or is it open to interpretation? so getting bum raped every day in prison by a different person would also count?
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Old 09.01.2015, 14:56
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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...No one, NO ONE deserves to be shot for taking the piss out of religion
And I didn't say they should.
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  #311  
Old 09.01.2015, 14:56
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Just me or does something smell fishy about the identity of the Hebdo killers.. I mean the fact that in the car on the scene, the police immediately found jihadi flags and his ID card..

Really .. Would a "trained assassin" leave his ID card in the car?? Some kind of set up? Just pure chance? Linked to the other shooting yesterday and the hostages now in the kosher shop?

maybe they thought they would be cut down as soon as they left the building and wanted to make sure they got the credit for it
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  #312  
Old 09.01.2015, 15:01
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Just me or does something smell fishy about the identity of the Hebdo killers.. I mean the fact that in the car on the scene, the police immediately found jihadi flags and his ID card..

Really .. Would a "trained assassin" leave his ID card in the car?? Some kind of set up? Just pure chance? Linked to the other shooting yesterday and the hostages now in the kosher shop?
You mean nobody is talking about prince Andrew playing with kiddies?

Cynic
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  #313  
Old 09.01.2015, 15:01
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Perhaps, but it's supposed to be constructive criticism as well, designed to provoke thoughtful discussion. Some of the cartoons I've seen from Charlie were only intended to be provocative and, as the author says, just trolling.
no, it's not, especially not when dealing with topics that are considered "sacred". 99% of the purpose of satire is "to go there", and to ridicule topics or figures that are deemed beyond the reach of ridicule. there is absolutely nothing at all about satire that is supposed to be "constructive", although good and effective satire can promote discussion and thereafter constructive criticism.

the purpose of satire, to grossly oversimplify, is to provoke. period.
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  #314  
Old 09.01.2015, 15:11
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Interesting debate on the matter here.

Apologies if previously posted.

I wonder if Sky deliberately got the crazy guy on to further stir tensions as he clearly has a few screws loose.
I am curious what you could have possibly found "interesting" about that "debate"?



I posted it before but I will be so vain as to restate it - without freedom of expression, there is no freedom of religion. it is quite simply not philosophically possible.

it is also worth pointing out the obvious fact that "Muslim" is not a race, nor is it an "ethnicity". as someone whose native country is guilty of some of the worst examples of racism in the recorded history of man, it actually offends me quite deeply to have some talking head compare anything that could be said or drawn about Muslims with the treatment of black people.

Last edited by crazygringo; 09.01.2015 at 15:23.
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Old 09.01.2015, 15:16
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Interesting debate on the matter here.

Apologies if previously posted.

I wonder if Sky deliberately got the crazy guy on to further stir tensions as he clearly has a few screws loose.
thanks for posting this, I think the "debate" was designed to get as many viewers as possible. Douglas Murray's excellent.
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Old 09.01.2015, 15:18
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I am curious what you could have possibly found "interesting" about that "debate"?
Why did they give that guy any airtime at all? He certainly did nothing for his own cause.

For me, the basic question is if a person or group should have the right to stop what other parties choose to talk about amongst themselves. The answer is a resounding "NO!". If they don't like what is being talked about, they should turn away and not listen to the conversation. This notion of controlling other people's thoughts and speech is Totalitarian to the max.
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  #317  
Old 09.01.2015, 15:20
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Its a little bit shocking that people are able upload pics to twitter on there mobiles of the scenes, this would suggest that the french haven't blocked mobile access.
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  #318  
Old 09.01.2015, 15:22
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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thanks for posting this, I think the "debate" was designed to get as many viewers as possible. Douglas Murray's excellent.
well, I do have to admit that, if their intent was to inflame and to provoke, they certainly found the perfect nutter to do so.
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  #319  
Old 09.01.2015, 15:24
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Just me or does something smell fishy about the identity of the Hebdo killers.. I mean the fact that in the car on the scene, the police immediately found jihadi flags and his ID card..

Really .. Would a "trained assassin" leave his ID card in the car?? Some kind of set up? Just pure chance? Linked to the other shooting yesterday and the hostages now in the kosher shop?
One previously suspected called the police saying he had a watertight alibi. If they intended to not survive this whole affair there would be no need to be particularly careful. And there are tons of examples of perpetrators acting incredibly stupid, including burglars sleeping at the place they broke in, or dropping their IDs.

Who would run away for days and even take hostages if suspected unjustified?
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Old 09.01.2015, 15:27
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I am curious what you could have possibly found "interesting" about that "debate"?



I posted it before but I will be so vain as to restate it - without freedom of expression, there is no freedom of religion. it is quite simply not philosophically possible.

it is also worth pointing out the obvious fact that "Muslim" is not a race, nor is it an "ethnicity". as someone whose native country is guilty of some of the worst examples of racism in the recorded history of man, it actually offends me quite deeply to have some talking head compare anything that could be said or drawn about Muslims with the treatment of black people.
The interesting part for me was the Muslim representative seemed to be taking his view point very seriously and genuinely believed that Muslim people were an underclass. He victimised Muslims. Then he became extremely agitated when Mr Murray challenged him and retorted with calling him a fish and a racist.
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