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  #461  
Old 09.01.2015, 19:53
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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The female suspect is still alive but at large.
Suspect because she is the companion of Koulibaly. The police does not know yet if she was directly involved in any of the attacks.
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  #462  
Old 09.01.2015, 19:54
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I think you've joined the wrong forum if you think all this is funny.
No I did not think it is funny. I was just making a point.
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  #463  
Old 09.01.2015, 19:55
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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So how to prevent the next attack by crazy extremists?
By working better on the integration?


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In Dammartin the "hostage" was not one. It's an employee that decided to remain hidden within the warehouse. He was in contact with the police and helped them in organizing the assault. He was reporting what the brothers were saying.

In the Vincennes case, the police was hearing what was going on inside the grocery thanks to a phone that the terrorist did not hang properly.
Any links on this? I am on the news now and didn't hear any of this.
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  #464  
Old 09.01.2015, 19:56
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Did anyone really believe this was ever going to end in an open trial?
I really had no idea, but I certainly would have been surprised if they would be willing to sit in a prison for the rest of their lives (no idea what the laws are in France regarding the death penalty). I'm still a bit in shock that the kid responsible for the Boston Marathon bombings is going to trial now. What a waste of tax dollars.

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Pancake will head out to Saudi Arabia?
Hell no! If anything, this incident (and this thread) has reminded me how fortunate I am to be living in a neutral country that allows me to believe what I want (and don't want)... and in which I wasn't culturally brainwashed to follow a certain religion. I may be soon going to Tokyo, though.
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  #465  
Old 09.01.2015, 19:59
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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By working better on the integration?


Any links on this? I am on the news now and didn't hear any of this.
they all have a criminal background...yes definitely working on better social integration.

BFMTV (in french)
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  #466  
Old 09.01.2015, 20:07
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Very difficult NIL, to work on the integration of people who are still treated like 3rd rate citizens- despite being French and born in France- just because their grand-parents were from North African ex French colonies! Strangely enough, many of the NF activists in the South of France are 2nd/3rd immigrants from Italy and Spain.

Did you ever see the Mathieu Kassovitz (of Amélie fame) film 'La Haine'? 97, I think if was. You can see it on u-tube.

As a teacher in very multicultural schools in the UK, I worked for 30+ years with several FRench schools in several areas (Normandie and Vosges)- and the anti-Islam and racism by French colleagues was incredible- both from the far left, and the far right- with very few in-between (pas la peine d'essayer avec ces bronzés- not worth even trying with those darkies). The 2 terrorists killed today were raised by the French State as orphans - I cannot begin to think what that experience was like. Not that excuses in any way shape of form the murders- but there is a massive anti-Islam movement in France, as said, from both extreme left and extreme right- and the historical principle of secularity (laďcité) is used again and again by both sides to hide under. When organising exchanges, it was impossible on several occasions to find families, and teachers, prepared to host some of our best students and linguists, because they were Muslims (and from VERY good homes too)!
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  #467  
Old 09.01.2015, 20:10
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

This attitude and mentality of victimization is the very first barrier to integration. Tragically, it is mostly self-inflicted.
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Old 09.01.2015, 20:13
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

I would agree in the UK - but not in France. Have you ever lived or worked in France, Phos? and seen it with your own eyes? Unless you have, and studied the history of France and how secularity came about, etc- it may well be difficult to fathom just how different the situation, and attitudes, are diametrically opposed to the UK.
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  #469  
Old 09.01.2015, 20:21
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I'm still a bit in shock that the kid scumbag POS responsible for the Boston Marathon bombings is going to trial now.
FTFY.

Indeed, they should have saved tax dollars and decapitated him on the spot.

Tom
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  #470  
Old 09.01.2015, 20:23
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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there is a massive anti-Islam movement in France,
I blame Charles Martel.
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  #471  
Old 09.01.2015, 20:26
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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You say you're a student of what, you say? And who is teaching you what exactly?

This is the principle they were carrying out, and frankly a large majority of the Muslim world agrees with - "Whoever insults a Prophet kill him.". I'm sure there was the context of history and situation where this was stated. But that sounds pretty peaceful and tolerant, doesn't it?

The satirists were using an image of the prophet to provoke thought, though whether or not it insults someone who is dead is questionable. You can choose to insult me, but I don't know you, so I don't see how that carries any weight. Furthermore, it would only really be an insult if I felt insulted. But I have a huge sense of humour. Why is the Muslim world missing one? As for cartoons, of all genres, who takes cartoons seriously anyway?

Now, Sunni Islam prohibits the visual depiction of Muhammad. The reason cited is its roots in anti-idolatry. They don't want images of Muhammad worshipped as God. And to be honest, I don't think Muhammad wanted them to worship him as God. Now with all the weight they give to a cartoon of Muhammad, aren't they getting quite close to idolizing Muhammad themselves? Is this really what Muhammad would like them to do? Kill non-believers that don't believe what they believe?
I suspect that there are a lot of "cultural Muslims" out there who also don't and aren't willing to heed the advice of ""Whoever insults a Prophet kill him." If there were many more Muslims who truly followed that, then I suspect that we'd be seeing many more terrorist attacks than we already do.

When I say "cultural Muslims," I refer to those who were born and raised in a Muslim culture but who do not, for example, pray to Mecca every day or feast during Ramadan, who might sneak a drink now and then, etc. -- and it's been my experience that there are many of them.

I personally have no idea if the Muslim world is "missing a sense of humor" because I am not really part of that world. But it does make me remember the time that my Muslim boss had a work party and ended up getting so drunk that he table danced for everyone.

To answer your question... yes, I studied Philosophy and art history for quite some time (I'd like to point out, thought, that this was not originally brought up by me in this thread). Some of my studies focused on comparative religion and the philosophy of religion, but the majority of it focused on Eastern thought (Buddhism, Taoism, etc.), as I had planned/hoped to teach Eastern art.

I agree with what someone else wrote here, that they were most likely using their religion as an excuse to commit acts of violence. Why else is it that so many Muslims can follow Islam without resorting to violence, and yet some (thankfully, the minority) do? I don't think it is the religion alone that makes them violent. I'm sure there are many other factors involved.
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  #472  
Old 09.01.2015, 20:26
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I would agree in the UK - but not in France. Have you ever lived or worked in France, Phos? and seen it with your own eyes? Unless you have, and studied the history of France and how secularity came about, etc- it may well be difficult to fathom just how different the situation, and attitudes, are diametrically opposed to the UK.
Yes, I have. Complicated people, and sometimes snobby and difficult. I try to avoid them now. But nevertheless, they won't try to flog or decapitate you for saying the wrong thing. And they are often aesthetically and stylistically evolved.
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  #473  
Old 09.01.2015, 20:34
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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FTFY.

Indeed, they should have saved tax dollars and decapitated him on the spot.

Tom
I normally have mixed feelings about the death penalty, but I must admit that in this case, I wished they would have slowly cut off all his limbs... without anesthetic.

(OMG, did I just write that?!? )

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  #474  
Old 09.01.2015, 20:36
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Some will have more broken bones though lol

I started with 5 so ran out of spots. Maybe you can be the 6th and head out to Hicksville, Alabama? Pancake will head out to Saudi Arabia?
No you only gave 4 locations/spots? Or maybe you have a problem with big numbers over 4?
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  #475  
Old 09.01.2015, 20:44
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Odile,

Why don't you ask the Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and others in many countries and continents where Islamist butchers have targetted what their feelings are?
Maybe we could start with Nigeria where thousands have recently been slaughtered.
How many Islamic capitals will be ACTIVELY condemning this carnage?
Floggings, stonings, burnings, amputations, beheadings are hardly the hallmark of a civilised society.
I hold no candle for LePenn, or that supercilious grinning idiot, Farage, but BBC reports that a blogger has today been flogged in the center of civilisation... the KSA!
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  #476  
Old 09.01.2015, 20:53
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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No you only gave 4 locations/spots? Or maybe you have a problem with big numbers over 4?
I had 4 browser windows open with streaming news so maybe I subconsciously got stuck at 4. I can count to 9 thank you very much, double digits can get tricky though
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Old 09.01.2015, 20:54
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Finally. I was wondering when they would come to, and even started to question what they are about:

Anonymous declares war on Jihadist Extremists

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  #478  
Old 09.01.2015, 20:55
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

So, perhaps on EF, rather than groaning, we should behead or castrate?

Tom
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  #479  
Old 09.01.2015, 20:56
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Odile,

Why don't you ask the Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and others in many countries and continents where Islamist butchers have targetted what their feelings are?
Maybe we could start with Nigeria where thousands have recently been slaughtered.
How many Islamic capitals will be ACTIVELY condemning this carnage?
Floggings, stonings, burnings, amputations, beheadings are hardly the hallmark of a civilised society.
I hold no candle for LePenn, or that supercilious grinning idiot, Farage, but BBC reports that a blogger has today been flogged in the center of civilisation... the KSA!
Please don't mix everything- my post above has nothing to do with this- which I of course totally condemn. I hope you took the trouble to also write to KSA via Amnesty International about the floggings of this poor blogger. It's not about 'either/or' surely.
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Old 09.01.2015, 20:57
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Odile,

Why don't you ask the Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and others in many countries and continents where Islamist butchers have targetted what their feelings are?
Maybe we could start with Nigeria where thousands have recently been slaughtered.
How many Islamic capitals will be ACTIVELY condemning this carnage?
Floggings, stonings, burnings, amputations, beheadings are hardly the hallmark of a civilised society.
I hold no candle for LePenn, or that supercilious grinning idiot, Farage, but BBC reports that a blogger has today been flogged in the center of civilisation... the KSA!
Conflating French-born Muslims in Paris with Boko Haram and the oppressive state of Saudi Arabia is as idiotic as the terrorists' conflating of Jewish bakers in Paris with Mossad and the IDF.
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