France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks] - Page 27

#**521** 09.01.2015, 23:26

	Quote:
	Go on, then. How?

Don't be silly .. It will never end.

This has been going on in some form long before our time and will go on in some form or other long after we're gone.

I guess it's human nature

amaraya · #**522** 09.01.2015, 23:30

in my humble opinion, it is as asinine to blame muslims for this tragedy as it is to blame charlie hebdo for this tragedy. in the end you can blame as you will to soothe yourself but all it takes is a couple of misguided pawns (in the name of religion or something else) to do the work of the big boys who have other interests

charlie hebdo wasn't criticizing only radical muslims, but all the powers that hold dangerously strong grips on people- religious figures, political figures and the like. it is interesting to see such supporters of the journal who aren't as critical across the board. this is why c.h is so respected

because you can't look at one cause without seeing the others...

Castro · #**523** 09.01.2015, 23:56

	Quote:
	People have very short memories. We have always had terrorism: from anarchists and fascists in the twenties and thirties, to the Red Brigades and Palestinians in the sixties and seventies, the IRA, ETA, Tamil Tigers and on and on... it's nothing new. Nor, for that matter, is the phenomenon of "shadowy forces" taking advantage of young dickheads to stir things up a bit (there's nothing "tinfoil hat" about this - the practice is quite widely recorded, usually a few decades after the fact). If and when "Islamism" is defeated, there'll be some other movement to take its place, so let's not kid ourselves that we'll ever be able to live in a world free of hostage taking, random shooting and bombing. In the meantime, our governments will make a nice big piece of theatre for our benefit (88 000 coppers, eh?), knowing full well that employing Saudi Arabia as a key ally in our War on Terror is as effective as employing the Soviet Union as a key ally in our battle against communism during the twentieth century. Here, Mr Wolf, can you help us with this problem we're having with disappearing sheep? It's all bollocks. In other news this week, some bloke in America tried to kill a load of people at an NAACP office, some communists perpetrated a suicide bomb attack in Turkey, and FARC are still up to their usual nonsense in Colombia. So it goes. (Anyway, when are you Americans going to apologise for NORAID? What's sauce for the goose, and all that...)

Its profoundly depressing to think that our kids will never know any different i.e. what life was like pre-2001

#**524** 10.01.2015, 00:09

	Quote:	Castro
	Its profoundly depressing to think that our kids will never know any different i.e. what life was like pre-2001

The irony is that the pre-2001 world was much more dangerous - in Britain, at least.

The IRA were much better at terrorism than the current shower. Islamists, by and large, aren't actually very good at it.

MrVertigo · #**525** 10.01.2015, 00:16

worrying to see how within short time the "jihadosphere" generates a new wave of violence that's probably much worse than Al-Qaeda with its pyramidal structure. It's a new type of terrorism. Wonder what modern states will be able to do to fight it without destroying civil liberties.

#**526** 10.01.2015, 00:17

Should we then behead everybody who has formed an opinion of a group based on the sampling of data they have had from members of that group? Or, maybe just ridiculing them for holding such opinions? but what if that is the most honest assessment they can make? Would you like to argue with them to death about it?

But what about providing them with a better sampling of data? Better yet, Instead of trying to manipulate those who form such opinions, how about instructing and correcting the bad samples of that data that formed their perception?

For me, if a member of my team was to make the whole team look bad, I would fire him. Its not fair to the rest of the team. Why is this not happening in this situation?

Castro · #**527** 10.01.2015, 00:18

	Quote:
	The irony is that the pre-2001 world was much more dangerous - in Britain, at least. The IRA were much better at terrorism than the current shower. Islamists, by and large, aren't actually very good at it.

Its probably because there is no clearly defined cause. I had a lot of hope for the Arab Spring, but even that turned out to be a damp squib.

Chuff · #**528** 10.01.2015, 00:33

	Quote:
	The irony is that the pre-2001 world was much more dangerous - in Britain, at least. The IRA were much better at terrorism than the current shower. Islamists, by and large, aren't actually very good at it.

This is actually very true, the IRA were like professionals, clever, and many were military-grade... whereas the average Islamist foot soldier seems to be a fanatical yokel with a gun.

However the other clear difference is that not only are the Islamists orders of magnitude more numerous, but they have zero concern for their own lives or safety in what they see as their higher purpose.

There's not so much you can do against someone looking to cause destruction while willingly throwing their lives away.

ratbag · #**529** 10.01.2015, 06:22

Any organised “religion” that depends on a pack of rabid dogs to impose its will on society in general, and its members in particular, should be discouraged. NOT banned........ discouraged.
If your particular superstition entails unquestioning obedience to some fckwit in a funny hat then outrages like this will continue.
The termination of the sieges in France is not an end to terrorism to impose a view on the public at large..... rather just the beginning.

You ask “HOW”.....

Maybe we could start be converting all churches, mosques, synagogues into public urinals?

Or would that prompt you into sending the “boys” round to silence me?

#**530** 10.01.2015, 06:29

	Quote:	ratbag
	Any organised “religion” that depends on a pack of rabid dogs to impose its will on society in general, and its members in particular, should be discouraged. NOT banned........ discouraged. If your particular superstition entails unquestioning obedience to some fckwit in a funny hat then outrages like this will continue. The termination of the sieges in France is not an end to terrorism to impose a view on the public at large..... rather just the beginning. You ask “HOW”..... Maybe we could start be converting all churches, mosques, synagogues into public urinals? Or would that prompt you into sending the “boys” round to silence me?

And how, exactly, are you going to do that?

Come on, now. We want solid, practical details, not airy fairy bollocks.

ratbag · #**531** 10.01.2015, 07:00

That's why I depending on intelligent responses from folks like yourself.

I certainly do not have the answers. Just lots of queries.

If you do not have some sort of resolution then perhaps you should leave a reply to somebody who does?

MidfieldGeneral · #**532** 10.01.2015, 07:02

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Why do you even bother trying to compare the two? It's Guardian logic. Did he kill people in the name of his religion?

Yes he did. He claims he is a modern Crusader.

#**533** 10.01.2015, 07:07

	Quote:	ratbag
	That's why I depending on intelligent responses from folks like yourself. I certainly do not have the answers. Just lots of queries. If you do not have some sort of resolution then perhaps you should leave a reply to somebody who does?

What a cop out. You really are full of shit, ratbag.

Chuff · #**534** 10.01.2015, 08:06

	Quote:
	What a cop out. You really are full of shit, ratbag.

I consider that a surprisingly generous assessment.

Pancakes · #**535** 10.01.2015, 08:07

	Quote:	ratbag
	If you do not have some sort of resolution then perhaps you should leave a reply to somebody who does?

And what is your logical resolution?

Oh, wait. It's to turn all places of worship into public urinals.

So let me rephrase that for you...

"If you do not have some sort of logical resolution then perhaps you should leave a reply to somebody who does?"

By the way... if a resolution were so easily achieved, then I suspect we would have achieved one by now.

MidfieldGeneral · #**536** 10.01.2015, 08:18

	Quote:	Phos
	Should we then behead everybody who has formed an opinion of a group based on the sampling of data they have had from members of that group? Or, maybe just ridiculing them for holding such opinions? but what if that is the most honest assessment they can make? Would you like to argue with them to death about it? But what about providing them with a better sampling of data? Better yet, Instead of trying to manipulate those who form such opinions, how about instructing and correcting the bad samples of that data that formed their perception? For me, if a member of my team was to make the whole team look bad, I would fire him. Its not fair to the rest of the team. Why is this not happening in this situation?

There are many Muslim critics of what has happened including the Lebanese Hezbollah Leader:

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/...n-cartoonists/

greenmount · #**537** 10.01.2015, 09:33

The two brothers were known for their links to terrorism; one of them was convicted and even went in jail for terrorism, they were on the Americans' list of suspects. They were known to have come from camps in Syria.
Yet, it seems they were free enough to be able to carry on the attack. What happened with secret services, etc.? Weren't they "observed"?

Sad truth: it's all done for the moment, but it could happen again anytime soon. With another nutters and under other pretext than offensive cartoons.
P.S. Just remembered that one of the French officials said there are needed 25 people for the surveillance of 1 suspect of terrorism.
Hope that the French have learned their lesson and will never offend some feelings, or else.

	Quote:
	"The leadership of AQAP directed the operations and they have chosen their target carefully as revenge for the honor of the prophet," the al-Qaida member said. He said France was targeted "because of its obvious role in the war on Islam and oppressed nations." He warned that "touching Muslims' sanctity and protecting those who make blasphemy have a dear price and the punishment will be severe" and that "the crimes of the Western countries, above them America, Britain and France will backfire deep in their home."

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/d9103...ought-al-qaida

Enjoy the world of tomorrow.

OSueco · #**538** 10.01.2015, 09:54

	Quote:	Pancakes
	I normally have mixed feelings about the death penalty, but I must admit that in this case, I wished they would have slowly cut off all his limbs... without anesthetic. (OMG, did I just write that?!? )

making martyrs is always a good idea... :roll eyes:

Pancakes · #**539** 10.01.2015, 10:04

	Quote:	OSueco
	making martyrs is always a good idea... :roll eyes:

"Martyrs" in the minds of whom?

Anyways, I wasn't being serious with my statement, and I assumed that was obvious (it was a reference to the number of people who lost their legs in the Boston bombings). I do not think that the best way to punish violence is with violence.

#**540** 10.01.2015, 10:31

So tell me now... did those guys do what they did in the name of religion- as Muslims who understand Islam- or who have been brained washed?