Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #541  
Old 10.01.2015, 11:37
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
I really had no idea, but I certainly would have been surprised if they would be willing to sit in a prison for the rest of their lives (no idea what the laws are in France regarding the death penalty).

The death penalty in France was abolished by President François Mitterand long ago, and later by the E.U. . In Switzerland. there WAS a death penalty in war times (Sonderbundskrieg 1847/48), Deutsch-Französicher Krieg, WW-ONE, WW-TWO) but even this was abolished in 1945 .




************************************************** ****************************************




Quote:
View Post
I'm sorry, but I don't see how what they did defends their religion. Their religion was not under threat. If anything, they wanted to assert the supremacy of their religion, and perhaps reflect their own fragile belief in their own religion. What they did is denigrate their own religion.

What they wanted is to assert the supremacy of their particular creed above everything else. Two practicing devout Muslims of Arab origin, the corrector of Charlie and a policeman, got killed by them. The attackers in reality attacked Islam. That woman who is still alive now may have two enemies, the Police Corps and relatives + friends of those two. If she gets caught by police, her chance of survival may be better
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #542  
Old 10.01.2015, 11:54
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 4,205
Groaned at 221 Times in 155 Posts
Thanked 8,488 Times in 3,222 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
So tell me now... did those guys do what they did in the name of religion?
My guess is "yes." Because otherwise, it seems just a bit too coincidental that they had chosen to attack a magazine that is so well-known (in France) for publishing satirical images of Mohammed, etc. If their religion (rather, their personal interpretations of their religion) was irrelevant, then why wouldn't they have attacked something or someone seemingly more random?

I do agree, though, with what someone else had mentioned here earlier... that it wasn't religion/Islam that caused them to do this, but it was likely more due to a predisposition toward violence. This is why, for example, some Muslims can be offended by anti-Muslim sentiments but not retaliate violently, while others (thankfully, the minority) do.

Oops, I see now that you edited your post (that I had quoted). Personally, I think that all people who follow religion are, to some extreme, brainwashed. And I definitely think that the majority of us are culturally brainwashed. But there are some Islamic scholars who have stressed that anyone willing to kill to defend Islam is not a "true" Muslim. It does seem that their holy book is open for interpretation (and misinterpretation)...as is, I think, the Bible.
Reply With Quote
  #543  
Old 10.01.2015, 11:54
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
Very difficult NIL, to work on the integration of people who are still treated like 3rd rate citizens- despite being French and born in France- just because their grand-parents were from North African ex French colonies! Strangely enough, many of the NF activists in the South of France are 2nd/3rd immigrants from Italy and Spain.

Did you ever see the Mathieu Kassovitz (of Amélie fame) film 'La Haine'? 97, I think if was. You can see it on u-tube.

As a teacher in very multicultural schools in the UK, I worked for 30+ years with several FRench schools in several areas (Normandie and Vosges)- and the anti-Islam and racism by French colleagues was incredible- both from the far left, and the far right- with very few in-between (pas la peine d'essayer avec ces bronzés- not worth even trying with those darkies). The 2 terrorists killed today were raised by the French State as orphans - I cannot begin to think what that experience was like. Not that excuses in any way shape of form the murders- but there is a massive anti-Islam movement in France, as said, from both extreme left and extreme right- and the historical principle of secularity (laïcité) is used again and again by both sides to hide under. When organising exchanges, it was impossible on several occasions to find families, and teachers, prepared to host some of our best students and linguists, because they were Muslims (and from VERY good homes too)!

Exactly those two Maghrebis killed have proven, that Maghrebi people have a chance to succeed. Policeman and corrector may not be top prestigious jobs, but respectable jobs. Even the Israeli embassy in Paris complained that the French media is infested by journalists of Arab origin. There also are many medical doctors of Arab origin in France. Strange is that Euro-Arabs follow the Jews by being active in journalism, transport, medicine , etc. As the Chief Rabbi of Paris put it a while ago the Anti-Semites hate us both, so that we are condemned to work together
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #544  
Old 10.01.2015, 12:02
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Are they beheading apostates in Ireland too?

No, they were (I hope so) simply SHOOTING them


************************************************** ******************************




Quote:
View Post
Aren't they all voluntary members of the same Islamic club franchise? Don't they all try their best to follow the same perfect book, life and teachings of the same perfect prophet?

And are all Christians try their best to follow the same perfect bookS, of the same perfect prophet (Son of God) ?
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Wollishofener for this post:
  #545  
Old 10.01.2015, 12:05
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 4,205
Groaned at 221 Times in 155 Posts
Thanked 8,488 Times in 3,222 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

I think someone here (Odile?) mentioned earlier that tensions between French Muslims and French non-Muslims have been pretty high. I also read that headscarves were banned in France, etc.*

This makes me wonder if these murderers had chosen the magazine not simply because of the images, etc. that it had published but more because it wanted the magazine to serve as a symbol for the anti-Muslim sentiments that are (perhaps?) so rampant in France... ?

* Curiously, though, does anyone know... Is it actually headscarves that have been banned in France (e.g. like the one in Nil's current avatar) or is it only the veiling of the entire face that has been banned? I seem to be finding conflicting info. via a Google search.
Reply With Quote
  #546  
Old 10.01.2015, 12:15
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
So tell me now... did those guys do what they did in the name of religion- as Muslims who understand Islam- or who have been brained washed?
Nobody is - or has ever been - brainwashed. There is simply no such thing.

These dickheads acted under their own free will.

My questions are: who encouraged them, who trained them, who paid for their weapons?

I don't think we'll ever find out.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #547  
Old 10.01.2015, 12:16
Castro's Avatar
à la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZG
Posts: 5,403
Groaned at 110 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 16,094 Times in 5,129 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
* Curiously, though, does anyone know... Is it actually headscarves that have been banned in France (e.g. like the one in Nil's current avatar) or is it only the veiling of the entire face that has been banned? I seem to be finding conflicting info. via a Google search.
The Niqab (full face veil) has been banned, but the more modest head scarf is only banned in French schools (but not universities). I am not sure how it works in convent schools.. do the nuns have to take off their scarves??

Anyway its fair to say that the French left seem to be obsessed by this flimsy piece of fabric.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #548  
Old 10.01.2015, 12:18
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

All head scarves have been banned in French school- not in France.
Girls cannot wear a simple scarf, coloured, with flowers, or whatever. Several of my Christian students in the UK wore headscarves btw (I think they were Plymouth brethren). Some of the best students, hardest working, polite and well behaved, were prevented from attending school if wearing any kind of head covering. Several Muslim students from my school were prevented from taking part in our French exchange- because they wore a scarf. Our best and keenest linguists. Which is why we stopped organising them.

Yes, Wooli, it is possible to succeed in France if you are Beur- but it is much much more difficult for them. I've had several Muslim assistantes from France staying with us in the UK, and it was disturbing to hear of their experiences- and they were 2nd generation, well integrated, perfect French, not wearing any special clothing. The way they were treated in the UK seemed like just a dream. Many stayed or came back to the UK, for that reason. (sorry Castro, posts crossed).

In the schools with which we organised exchanges- there were 2 sides obsessed with 'that little piece of fabric' - the far left and the far right- schools were full of them. The first time we came across this- the French students and teachers arrived by coach- and one teacher (feminist far left) came to say one of the students had not been able to come at the last minute because of a family bereavement. Our student was so disappointed, and so was the family who had redecorated a bedroom for the exchange student, and were really looking forward to this. We included our student in all the activities for the week- and told teachers she would be coming with us on the return leg. Teachers said the family would not be able to host- which seemed strange as the excuse was a 'bereavement'. So we asked them to find another family for her. I then phoned the teacher in charge every week (very right wing)- and he kept saying they wre unable to find a family. After 5 weeks, and the week before the exchange- I phoned the 6th Former who had stayed with us and told her what was happening. She knew the younger student well, as she'd tagged along to us for all the trips and acitivites. 5 mins later her mum phoned me back (I was going to be staying with them) and said Rashnee could come and stay with them too, the more the merrier.

I phone the teacher in charge with the good news. Response 'you can't do that - there is no way she is coming into our school with her scarf (simple coloured scarf)- if she does, we, all the staff, will walk out.

Last edited by Odile; 10.01.2015 at 13:46.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #549  
Old 10.01.2015, 12:18
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
What happened with secret services, etc.?

Indeed.

You know it's thirty years this year since the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior. Crafty buggers, these French secret services...
Reply With Quote
  #550  
Old 10.01.2015, 12:22
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Yes, Wooli, it is possible to succeed in France if you are Beur- but it is much much more difficult for them. I've had several Muslim assistantes from France staying with us in the UK, and it was disturbing to hear of their experiences- and they were 2nd generation, well integrated, perfect French, not wearing any special clothing. The way they were treated in the UK seemed like just a dream. Many stayed or came back to the UK, for that reason. (sorry Castro, posts crossed).[/QUOTE]



Not so much has changed really since I in 1972 in London discussed those matters with a nice Moroccan girl who had lived in Paris for two years. We both were united in being Paris-Lovers, but agreed that many French (a minority, but awful) are MEAN and unbearable, and that French Police (both the Police Municipale and the Gendarmerie Nationale, but even the Police Judiciaire) are definitely crap. The feeling for FAIRPLAY of the Brits can be praised




"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""







Quote:
View Post
I think someone here (Odile?) mentioned earlier that tensions between French Muslims and French non-Muslims have been pretty high. I also read that headscarves were banned in France, etc.*

This makes me wonder if these murderers had chosen the magazine not simply because of the images, etc. that it had published but more because it wanted the magazine to serve as a symbol for the anti-Muslim sentiments that are (perhaps?) so rampant in France... ?

You are heavily exaggerating (and factually wrong)
> France suffers from tensions between Arabs and Continentals, between various groups of Euro-Arabs, between leftists and rightwingers, between Corsicans and others, between Basques and others, between 2nd-generation-pied-noirs and others B U T reality is that these groups in daily reality live together and co-operate in peaceful co-existence. As François Mitterand in a famous speech outlined, the amalgamation of cultures in France DID lead to lots of problems but at the bottom made France a better place.
> Anti-Arab (anti-Muslim) Sentiments are NOT rampant in France but of course existing. Such sentiments also affect Arab Christians in France (many from Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco) and Arab Jews (ex Morocco, etc)
> no, the Magazine was not chosen as a symbol of Anti-Muslim Sentiments as it never was anti-Muslim but to terrorize journalists.
> and two Facts at the end
- while Brits when hearing ISLAM very much have people from ex-British-India in mind, Muslims ** in France by 90%-plus are of Arab origin
- and many Arabs in France ** are Christians
** many of them are French citizens, many of them were born and grew up in France


another aspect is ethnics. The attackers apparently, in French, said about the policeman he is not Algerian and by that meant that he was of BERBER origin (roughly 50% of all Algerians are not of Arab but of Berber origin and his name gave him away) and Berbers are known to prefer French over Arabic

Last edited by Wollishofener; 10.01.2015 at 12:54.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #551  
Old 10.01.2015, 12:31
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 4,205
Groaned at 221 Times in 155 Posts
Thanked 8,488 Times in 3,222 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
Nobody is - or has ever been - brainwashed. There is simply no such thing.
Sorry, I guess I used the term "brainwashed" a bit too non-literally in my post, in which I had equated brainwashing with cultural adaptation or adopting the norms of the culture in which one was born. While I realize this adaptation is not literally forced, I do think it occurs beyond the control of many or most of us. Unfortunately, I think history has proven that human nature tends to follow the ideologies of their own cultures more so than to question them. Hopefully, we're finally beginning to evolve away from that (in terms of religion).
Reply With Quote
  #552  
Old 10.01.2015, 12:31
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

How many young French Muslims have you talked to about their experience in finding apprenticeships, jobs, a flat even, going into a Club, simple every day things? I think you are being very naïve Wooli.

So well illustrated by Zebda's song (a group of young Beur musicians from Toulouse) 'ah non, ça va pas être possible, ah non'. Constant rejection is very condusive to lead to extremes eventually. Remember that the brothers were NOT brought up in a Muslim family environment, but were orphans brought up by State institutions.

One of our daughters spent a year at a French uni, in the 90s- she was truly shocked by the sheer racisms against Muslim/arab students. And also the constant police harrassment of them.

Last edited by Odile; 10.01.2015 at 13:03.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #553  
Old 10.01.2015, 12:33
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 4,205
Groaned at 221 Times in 155 Posts
Thanked 8,488 Times in 3,222 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
You are heavily exaggerating (and factually wrong)...
Thanks for the explanation. As I mentioned, I was only going on what someone else here had mentioned (about the tensions). Being that I don't live in France, I would have no way of deciding for myself. But this is one case where I'd be happy to be wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #554  
Old 10.01.2015, 13:10
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,745
Groaned at 330 Times in 270 Posts
Thanked 14,122 Times in 7,275 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
So tell me now... did those guys do what they did in the name of religion- as Muslims who understand Islam- or who have been brained washed?
Both. Yet, there are close to 0 chances that some Muslims from Kosovo for instance or Bosnia to commit something similar. (at least for the moment anyway)
I believe they follow an agenda which is wrapped up in "religion" (Islam). I don't think you can find more contradictions (i.e. calls for violence against non-believers) in Koran than in the Old Testament for instance. The endless discussions about Islam being a religion of peace or not it's idiotic in my view, the roots of the problems are others.
Anyway, refusing to discuss some things out of the fear of being accused of racism and islamophobia and always be reduced to silence not to offend some sensibilities is plain stupid and self-destructive for the Western world.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #555  
Old 10.01.2015, 13:12
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Both. Yet, there are close to 0 chances that some Muslims from Kosovo for instance or Bosnia to commit something similar.
Yeah, cos neither country has a history of terrorism or organised violence...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #556  
Old 10.01.2015, 13:14
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,745
Groaned at 330 Times in 270 Posts
Thanked 14,122 Times in 7,275 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
Yeah, cos neither country has a history of terrorism or organised violence...
In the name of religion? And more importantly, on a global scale? C'mon DB.
Reply With Quote
  #557  
Old 10.01.2015, 13:21
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
In the name of religion? And more importantly, on a global scale? C'mon DB.
Both countries have dodgy madrassahs, funded by Saudi "philanthropists". Both countries have islamists and people fighting for ISIL.

I don't see why they should be considered to be immune from this current bout of silliness.
Reply With Quote
  #558  
Old 10.01.2015, 13:23
MrVertigo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 3,210
Groaned at 86 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 5,788 Times in 2,254 Posts
MrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
Both countries have dodgy madrassahs, funded by Saudi "philanthropists". Both countries have islamists and people fighting for ISIL.

I don't see why they should be considered to be immune from this current bout of silliness.
right.
Reply With Quote
  #559  
Old 10.01.2015, 13:43
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
How many young French Muslims have you talked to about their experience in finding apprenticeships, jobs, a flat even, going into a Club, simple every day things? I think you are being very naïve Wooli.

So well illustrated by Zebda's song (a group of young Beur musicians from Toulouse) 'ah non, ça va pas être possible, ah non'. Constant rejection is very condusive to lead to extremes eventually. Remember that the brothers were NOT brought up in a Muslim family environment, but were orphans brought up by State institutions.

One of our daughters spent a year at a French uni, in the 90s- she was truly shocked by the sheer racisms against Muslim/arab students. And also the constant police harrassment of them.

Well, there is a daily trouble to whomever looks Beur in France. And the musicians you mentioned had to learn that they looked different
- nose gets larger than those of the others
- your Feelings differ from the majority
- you never get sunburnt, which is an advantage but seen as suspicious
- you are brown already at the beginning of the season and get dark-brown later and
hear yourself being described as he is a darkie
- people speak about you as that mulatto there even if you regard yourself as a White
- a mother of a school-colleage do not allow YOU to see the birthday present out of fear that her friends might conclude that Max has a Tschingg as a friend
- you suddenly, after a boy declared loudly Tschingge hinne aschtaa were at the end of the line with a Sicilian -- I went to Globus and he to Hug. I since 1967 never went to the Schallplatten-Abteilung of Jelmoli ever again
--- yes I admit, the last two personal experiences DID hit. I then thought I would forget These humiliations but never managed to do so. Such humiliations are ever burning wounds
Reply With Quote
  #560  
Old 10.01.2015, 13:53
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

The concerted and willful denial of the role of Islam does not help. I recognize the intent of this sentiment is to not offend. And I acknowledge that the vast majority of Muslims have very good hearts which they attribute to cultivating through Islam. But there is something rotten in it that really needs to be confronted. And it won't help to deny it. It is like enabling addict in a co-dependent relationship.

There is a power struggle going on within Islam itself for the hearts and minds of Muslims. It is a struggle for power and control. Charlie Hebdo is of about the least significance in this battle. But it was attacked as part of a revolutionary tactic. Textbook revolutionary tactic is to attack the center ground to polarize the population into two radical and extreme camps. Sending 3 or 4 guys for a psychological operation like this is quite easy and cheap for them score easy gains. Through this, they increase mindshare relevance for their cause, and they do gain support from the wider Muslim world. Hezbollah and the Shiites see this, as well as al-Sisi. They are on the other side of this faction.

I do believe modernized Muslims are also keenly aware of this, and are ready to talk about it. I've spoken to many. They are just at a loss of what to do about it. One the one hand, they know there is something wrong. On the other, they don't have the tools to speak up and address it.

Make no silly mistake. This is in fact a Muslim problem, and it is rooted in Islam. Muslims need our help, but not in an intervening way. If anything, they need moral support in confronting this. But this can only be addressed by Muslims themselves. The West is only a side-topic in this power struggle, and the collateral damage. It would be a mistake to step into the middle of this as if it is all about us.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
charlie hebdo




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe) olygirl International affairs/politics 2911 18.12.2020 14:19
Terrorist attack in Nice, France - truck runs over crowd Troublawesome International affairs/politics 347 08.01.2017 14:22
Will borders with CH be affected after terrorist attacks? McTAVGE Daily life 19 15.11.2015 18:14
How many EF members had actually read Charlie Hebdo before this week? Guest International affairs/politics 114 17.01.2015 08:58
UK Passport office in France - a cautionary tale maxhd Complaints corner 21 07.09.2010 10:34


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0