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  #581  
Old 10.01.2015, 15:31
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I can't see that happening. We've had a couple of decades (more, if you count the hounding of people related to Salman Rushdie) of islamist bullshit now, and yet the reprisals on the ground have been pretty thin on the ground. Sure, there've been a couple of firebombed mosques, the occasional pig's head chucked in a doorway, a fair few physical and verbal attacks on women wearing hijabs, but where is the organised, orchestrated response that you'd expect to see during a proper civil conflict? It simply doesn't exist.

People aren't stupid. This isn't a real battle. It's a confection, very accurately predicted by Mr Orwell all the way back in 1948, and most people don't really give a bollocks one way or the other, comments on message boards and the Daily Mail comments section notwithstanding.

Protecting yourself and reprising are not the same thing. Reprisals are an idiot's response. Self-protection is a rational response. But there are other soft-decisions that are made towards this.

Europe doesn't really have a taste for this, and neither do I. Most of us would rather go snow-boarding. This is nowhere near the pain threshold they need to react in full force. At the moment, these are just images that flash across the media landscape, for most people.


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To be honest, this threshhold of inhibition (Hemmschwelle in German) can be applied to any cause, not just to Muslim extremists.
Sure. But in the context of today's situation and this thread, and throughout the world, it is in fact Muslim extremist fighting for Islam.
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  #582  
Old 10.01.2015, 15:34
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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So what is the difference- free speech against Islam and National Front, but not against Zionism?
I can think of six million reasons.
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  #583  
Old 10.01.2015, 15:42
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Sure. But in the context of today's situation and this thread, and throughout the world, it is in fact Muslim extremist fighting for Islam.


Their version of Islam.
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  #584  
Old 10.01.2015, 15:42
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Demented idiots, of any religious persuasion, have always existed and will continue to cause carnage in the future.
We have to accept that and continue life as normal.
Currently we have Islamic fanatics running amok.
We should close our borders to them and stand back to let them slaughter each other whether in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya....... wherever.

The interventionist policies of Bush and TB liar have proven to be utterly futile.
Still, I guess the bottom line of the oil majors dictates policy.

Apart from the barbaric practices advocated by Islam (stoning, beheading, amputations) it has added little to the general font of human knowledge.
You try to enter the Kingdom wearing any sort of religious symbol or carrying a Bible, Torah or any other religious text and what will happen?
It will be confiscated.
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  #585  
Old 10.01.2015, 15:43
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Their version of Islam.
Are there various versions of Islam? Who are "they"? How do you differentiate between them? Please feel free explain.
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  #586  
Old 10.01.2015, 15:55
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I can think of six million alleged reasons.
Fixed....oops....good thing I'm not in Germany!

It just shows what a complete farce je suis Charlie is.

If you want freedom of speech it needs to be universal with no exceptions I'm afraid.

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  #587  
Old 10.01.2015, 15:59
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Fixed....oops....good thing I'm not in Germany!

It just shows what a complete farce je suis Charlie is.

If you want free of speech it needs to be universal with no exceptions I'm afraid.
Free speech doesn't exist and has never existed.

It's the same flavour pie in the sky as equality.

The real world doesn't work that way.
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  #588  
Old 10.01.2015, 16:09
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Are there various versions of Islam? Who are "they"? How do you differentiate between them? Please feel free explain.
A big difference with someone who has studied the texts, be it the Bible or the Quoran- discussed them with family, friends and 'leaders' with deeper knowledge of them- be they Imam or Priest- and those who have just taken in a few snippets out of context, from others with a militarist/terrorist aim.

Anyone who has studied the texts about Jihad, and their context in war- will not come to the same conclusion as those 2 guys- and other ****ed people- yes, many of them who are susceptible to be brain-washed for all sorts of reasons. Same for many young zionist, who use the Torah to validate the occupation of Palestine.

Think how easy it would be to do the same by quoting many parts of the Old Testament, for instance.

Charlie Hebdo did revendicate absolute Free Speech in all circumstances (but sacked one of their oldest catoonists and founder members for anti jewish comments- how is that for hypocrisy).
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  #589  
Old 10.01.2015, 16:11
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Free speech doesn't exist and has never existed.

It's the same flavour pie in the sky as equality.

The real world doesn't work that way.
I know that. But the je suis Charlie morons don't.
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  #590  
Old 10.01.2015, 16:14
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Are there various versions of Islam? Who are "they"? How do you differentiate between them? Please feel free explain.
http://www.islamicity.com/articles/A...ef=IC1012-4388


I believe the above article will help to understand my statement.
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  #591  
Old 10.01.2015, 16:17
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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It definitely is a value proposition, "Die for the cause, and you will be a hero to Allah for eternity."

This value proposition really needs to be rebutted by Muslims themselves.
Do you think bin Laden or the current ISIS Caliph would Martyr himself for Allah? Of course not. They persuade angry young men to die instead.
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  #592  
Old 10.01.2015, 16:20
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Fixed....oops....good thing I'm not in Germany!

It just shows what a complete farce je suis Charlie is.

If you want free of speech it needs to be universal with no exceptions I'm afraid.
Also illegal in Switzerland, you have been reported.
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  #593  
Old 10.01.2015, 16:26
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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As the press and police are unfolding the story (in french) of the porte de Vincennes attack, there appears what I call the humble and discrete hero that makes us keep hope in humankind.
This time his name is Lassana Bathily a muslim malian employee of the kosher supermarket. He kept about 15 hostages (including a 2y old kid) hidden in the supermarkets fridge in the basement. He pushed the hostages in the fridge, turned it off and switched off the light. He told them to keep quiet as he is going upstairs. The phones of the hostages were used by police to communicate and locate them....and they knew they were safe in the basement. One of the hostage joked with Lassana and told him it was cold down there but that he is going to open some expensive wine bottles spotted there.
The French Government should give him a medal for bravery, and to damp down the current surge of anti Muslim prejudice.
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  #594  
Old 10.01.2015, 16:38
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Demented idiots, of any religious persuasion, have always existed and will continue to cause carnage in the future.
We have to accept that and continue life as normal.
Currently we have Islamic fanatics running amok.
We should close our borders to them and stand back to let them slaughter each other whether in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya....... wherever.

The interventionist policies of Bush and TB liar have proven to be utterly futile.
Still, I guess the bottom line of the oil majors dictates policy.

Apart from the barbaric practices advocated by Islam (stoning, beheading, amputations) it has added little to the general font of human knowledge.
You try to enter the Kingdom wearing any sort of religious symbol or carrying a Bible, Torah or any other religious text and what will happen?
It will be confiscated.

Close the borders? They were born in France! .

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Do you think bin Laden or the current ISIS Caliph would Martyr himself for Allah? Of course not. They persuade angry young men to die instead.
Of course the clever people are the leaders and would never do a suicide mission. Consequently the people who do are not the brightest bulbs on the tree which is why they are less competent than say the IRA.
Example is 9/11 where half the would be pilots failed training.
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  #595  
Old 10.01.2015, 16:40
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Another cartoon.
The Weekend Australian newspaper published the cartoon by Bill Leak entitled "Let us pray" in which Jesus is holding up the Koran and telling Mohammed: "I've told you this needs a sequel", a reference to the Bible which has an Old and New Testament.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/201...Bz7WYvFvUE1.99

That reminds me of a former boss of Algerian origin who used to joke about Islam being something like Windows 1.0.
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Old 10.01.2015, 17:12
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Another cartoon.
The Weekend Australian newspaper published the cartoon by Bill Leak entitled "Let us pray" in which Jesus is holding up the Koran and telling Mohammed: "I've told you this needs a sequel", a reference to the Bible which has an Old and New Testament.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/201...Bz7WYvFvUE1.99

That reminds me of a former boss of Algerian origin who used to joke about Islam being something like Windows 1.0.
The Koran is the sequel.

In many ways, Islam can be seen as the Orthodox Christian reformation. A sort of back-to-basics movement.

The parallels with some of the more extreme protestant churches are quite entertaining when you start to compare them...
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Old 10.01.2015, 17:26
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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The Koran is the sequel.

In many ways, Islam can be seen as the Orthodox Christian reformation. A sort of back-to-basics movement.

The parallels with some of the more extreme protestant churches are quite entertaining when you start to compare them...
And yet, in many, many ways (most) Orthodox Church is very similar to the Catholic Church. Of course, the former rejecting the Papal authority.
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Old 10.01.2015, 17:27
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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How many of you have ever seen or read Charlie Hebdo? I use to buy it as a teen and occasionaly as an adult. These guys are some of the funniest satirists around, or were till this morning. This isn't just another senseless gun shooting, it's the beginning of something more. Expect serious complications for the presence of Islam in Europe.

Oh and the accents have been identified as Franco-Algerian ghetto style (cf C Dans L'Air, on france5.fr).
I grew up with Harakiri, it's original version, with Wollinsky and all in the 60s. Then when I lived in the UK, visiting friends would bring me copies when they visited, same with Le Canard Enchaîné. Just like UK friends now bring me Private Eye - or even gardening magazines

Now perhaps we could discuss the difference with the kind of free speech and irreverence shown by Private Eye- as compared to Charlie Hebdo or Le Canard? Any thoughts?

Last edited by Odile; 10.01.2015 at 17:39.
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Old 10.01.2015, 17:31
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And yet, in many, many ways Orthodox Church is very similar to the Catholic Church.

This Sunday at 'our' Church, the first ecumenical service of the year- of course 'just' Protestants and Catholics- but what a huge step. I grew up in a very divided Protestant versus Catholic era here- my father from a staunch Catholic family, and my mother a Protestant divorcee with a child (+ from very different 'social' backgrounds)- hell on earth it was.
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Old 10.01.2015, 17:34
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I grew up with Harakiri, it's original version, with Wollinsky and all in the 60s. Then when I lived in the UK, visiting friends would bring me copies when they visited. Just like UK friends now bring me Private Eye.

Now perhaps we could discuss the difference with the kind of free speech and irreverence shown by Private Eye- as compared to Charlie Hebdo or Le Canard? Any thoughts?
The main difference? Ian Hislop's smug gittery hasn't resulted in multiple bereavement.
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