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  #761  
Old 11.01.2015, 21:21
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Well believe it or not cartoons insulting the prophet offend regular Muslims as well as the extremists.

Extremists deserve no respect, but in the process of offending them, regular Muslims get caught in the cross fire and regular Muslims develop an animosity against people exercising their right to freedom of speech.
Well I think this is all we needed to know, Porsche.
Everyone should be careful about what they say from now on as not to upset, I don't know, a mullah from Yemen.

Also, worth noting how regular Muslims develop an animosity against people exercising their rights.
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  #762  
Old 11.01.2015, 21:31
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Also, worth noting how regular Muslims develop an animosity against people exercising their rights.
Well, wouldn't you? You're well within your rights to tell me my children are ugly, but that doesn't mean I have to still like you afterwards.

I agree with Porsch. In attempting to provoke a handful of dickheads, the Charlie Hebdo people acted like dickheads themselves. I bet Ahmed Merabet's family are chuffed to bits with the magazine's "stand for freedom".
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  #763  
Old 11.01.2015, 21:34
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Well, wouldn't you? You're well within your rights to tell me my children are ugly, but that doesn't mean I have to still like you afterwards.

I agree with Porsch. In attempting to provoke a handful of dickheads, the Charlie Hebdo people acted like dickheads themselves. I bet Ahmed Merabet's family are chuffed to bits with the magazine's "stand for freedom".
No, I wouldn't. If some Christian weirdos would act like this I wouldn't be inclined to defend them. Not at all.
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Old 11.01.2015, 21:36
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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No, I wouldn't. If some Christian weirdos would act like this I wouldn't be inclined to defend them. At all.
Objecting to the cartoons produced by Charlie Hebdo is a long way from defending their murderers. A very, very long way.
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  #765  
Old 11.01.2015, 21:52
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Don't know if this has already been posted, but in case anyone is interested:

Responses to the massacre in Arabic and Iranian press.
Fairly neutral reporting.

Although the Iranian PressTV article's comments section reads like a Jihadist's Daily Mail comments section.

According to the comments, the attacks were actually carried out by the CIA, Mossad, various Zionists and even...wait for it.... ZioNazis.
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Old 11.01.2015, 21:54
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Well I think this is all we needed to know, Porsche.
Everyone should be careful about what they say from now on as not to upset, I don't know, a mullah from Yemen.

Also, worth noting how regular Muslims develop an animosity against people exercising their rights.
We are all "entitled" to be offended by something. What we are not entitled to is a violent reaction in opposition.

Similarly, we are all (for the most part), entitled to offend something. I only wish that more people weren't so easily willing to.

How can you logically expect (some) Muslims to not be offended when that which they hold most sacred is attacked? Regardless of whether or not we judge their religion to be "right" or "wrong," it is what it is... and I don't know how anyone can expect tensions between the West and the Muslim world to improve if we can't at least respect their right to follow whatever religion they choose, particularly when we are not in a state in which that religion is being forced upon us.

I think the biggest threat to humanity is its own ego.
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Old 11.01.2015, 21:58
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Objecting to the cartoons produced by Charlie Hebdo is a long way from defending their murderers. A very, very long way.
I wish I could give you a million thanks for that... or a nice box of chocolates.

I personally think that simply being offended by the cartoons is also a long way from objecting to the freedom of speech.
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  #768  
Old 11.01.2015, 22:13
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I bet Ahmed Merabet's family are chuffed to bits with the magazine's "stand for freedom".
Are you saying Hebdo caused the death of Ahmed Merabet? Did they get what was coming to them? Do you attribute less than 100% of the blame to the guys with the guns?
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  #769  
Old 11.01.2015, 22:58
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Ahmet was killed because he was a police officer, same as the lady who was killed later. Yes, probably he wouldn't have been killed if they didn't attack Charlie Hebdo.

I don't think his family is mad with Charlie Hebdo for standing up to their rights to write what they want as part of the freedom of speech people in France can enjoy. My bet is they are most likely disgusted of the terrorists who took his life.

But none of us are in his family's shoes.
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  #770  
Old 11.01.2015, 22:59
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Objecting to the cartoons produced by Charlie Hebdo is a long way from defending their murderers. A very, very long way.
Well, I just commented on Porsche's words, not mine.
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  #771  
Old 11.01.2015, 22:59
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Are you saying Hebdo caused the death of Ahmed Merabet? Did they get what was coming to them? Do you attribute less than 100% of the blame to the guys with the guns?
Yes, yes and yes.

Sorry, were you hoping for the party line from me? You're new here, aren't you?
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  #772  
Old 11.01.2015, 23:03
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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We are all "entitled" to be offended by something. What we are not entitled to is a violent reaction in opposition.

Similarly, we are all (for the most part), entitled to offend something. I only wish that more people weren't so easily willing to.

How can you logically expect (some) Muslims to not be offended when that which they hold most sacred is attacked? Regardless of whether or not we judge their religion to be "right" or "wrong," it is what it is... and I don't know how anyone can expect tensions between the West and the Muslim world to improve if we can't at least respect their right to follow whatever religion they choose, particularly when we are not in a state in which that religion is being forced upon us.

I think the biggest threat to humanity is its own ego.
Sorry, the big problem is how allegedly French citizens acted against their parents' adoptive country's values.
Muslims in Saudi Arabia are free to exercise their own interpretation of Koran. What the attackers did is not acceptable in France. In France, the Prophet, as well as other Prophets, could be make fun of.

It's not about religion here, it's about laws. Talion law doesn't apply there. If they felt offended, they should have taken it to the court.
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Old 11.01.2015, 23:10
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Sorry, the big problem is how allegedly French citizens acted against their parents' adoptive country's values.
As I understand it, political mass murder is as much a French value as liberty, fraternity and all the rest.

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  #774  
Old 11.01.2015, 23:14
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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As I understand it, political mass murder is as much a French value as liberty, fraternity and all the rest.

It's becoming ridiculous, DB. But well. If it fits your purpose.
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  #775  
Old 11.01.2015, 23:14
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Sorry, the big problem is how allegedly French citizens acted against their parents' adoptive country's values.
Muslims in Saudi Arabia are free to exercise their own interpretation of Koran. What the attackers did is not acceptable in France. In France, the Prophet, as well as other Prophets, could be make fun of.

It's not about religion here, it's about laws. Talion law doesn't apply there. If they felt offended, they should have taken it to the court.
About "Muslims in Saudi Arabia are free to exercise their own interpretation of Koran. " if you say so.

Whereas the Saudi government has just recently passed a law recommending capital punishment for anyone caught carrying or smuggling a bible into the country.
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  #776  
Old 11.01.2015, 23:16
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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It's becoming ridiculous, DB. But well. If it fits your purpose.
Yes, the sanctimonious, hypocritical bullshit filling the airwaves and cyberspace is ridiculous, but what can we do?
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  #777  
Old 11.01.2015, 23:16
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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About "Muslims in Saudi Arabia are free to exercise their own interpretation of Koran. " if you say so.

Whereas the Saudi government has just recently passed a law recommending capital punishment for anyone caught carrying or smuggling a bible into the country.
Good point, although I didn't mean it that way. Of course they're scared to death for everything that might contradict the official views. Muslims in Saudi Arabia are supposed to be a homogenous group (as per leaders' instructions) so I didn't even try to argue that.
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  #778  
Old 11.01.2015, 23:20
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Yes, the sanctimonious, hypocritical bullshit filling the airwaves and cyberspace is ridiculous, but what can we do?
Carry on, what else.
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  #779  
Old 11.01.2015, 23:23
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Well I think this is all we needed to know, Porsche.
Everyone should be careful about what they say from now on as not to upset, I don't know, a mullah from Yemen.

Also, worth noting how regular Muslims develop an animosity against people exercising their rights.
Well I try to be careful what I say all the time so that I don't offend anybody. I don't have targets of who I wish not to and who to offend.

And I don't see what is so surprising about regular Muslims bring insulted by cartoons which insult their beliefs.
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  #780  
Old 11.01.2015, 23:23
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Good point, although I didn't mean it that way. Of course they're scared to death for everything that might contradict the official views. Muslims in Saudi Arabia are supposed to be a homogenous group (as per leaders' instructions) so I didn't even try to argue that.
Apart from the multiple complaints by the Shia's that they are discriminated against; especially in employment and politics.
And of course the destruction of ancient Shia relics including a palm tree supposedly planted by the Prophet.
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