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  #821  
Old 12.01.2015, 05:10
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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And if following their religion means (and it does) killing non-believers, do you still think it should be allowed ?


But Islam does NOT mean killing non-believers. If they are peaceful you are not allowed to be violent and this is a quote from the Koran
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  #822  
Old 12.01.2015, 09:43
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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. but i think that analyzing the situation for people in similar situations can possibly help to avoid more tragedies such as this. idle hands are the devils workshop and all that...
Well, it seems we simply can't. If you read about Tsarnaev brothers you'd notice that at least one of them was quite well integrated and neither of them, or anyone from their family, was leading a destitute life. Political asylum can offer lots of privileges, but whatever, it doesn't matter how they got to the USA. Then something changed. They weren't orphans, neither living on the edge of society.
If avoiding such tragedies to happen means giving up freedoms that were conquered in such a long time, I think we deserve everything that might follow after this. I don't want to live in a totalitarian society, either based on a religious ideology or on other type of ideology. It's a matter that should concern all of us, regardless of our religion or other things.
The Dutch film-maker killed in 2004 payed a high price for his freedom. The other ones knew what could happen, but it didn't stop them. That should mean something and I'm really sad to see people trying to somehow find them at fault.

Last edited by greenmount; 12.01.2015 at 10:01.
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  #823  
Old 12.01.2015, 09:50
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

I think that humans always have -- and quite likely always will -- (mis)interpret their religions according to their own nature, whether that be violent or non-violent. This is why, for example, you have plenty of Islamic scholars who maintain that Islam is a religion of peace and that jihadists are not "true Muslims" and why some Muslims do use their religion to try to justify violence. Plenty of Christians have done that as well, throughout the course of human history. The Bible is also certainly not so "forgiving."

Was it really that long ago that some cultures here in the West were doing things such as:

  • Torturing and burning women alive, irrationally accusing them of being "witches"
  • Accusing, practically en masse, someone of heresy for having written a book about evolution
  • Not allowing women to vote
  • Justifying the enslavement of an entire race of human beings
Yes, thankfully, we seem to be finally advancing in that we are no longer using religion or other dogmas to justify violence (or are we?). But I think that before we can even begin to attack the beliefs of other cultures and religions, we need to first consider our own history, which certainly hasn't been "spotless."

My only hope is that, in time, the Muslim world as a whole will also stop using its religion to justify violence (and discrimination, etc.). But I do not think that is something that can logically be enforced upon another country/belief system, since it is often human nature to go against that which we perceive as a threat to our own ideologies. Because of this, I do think that, in many ways, we in the West do have our hands tied when it comes to making racial changes in Islamic states. That is something that they are, most likely, going to have to work out on their own. Perhaps the best we can do, at this point, is to not go out of our way to piss them off or offend them, because I suspect that is only going to work opposite of what we should truly be hoping to achieve.
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  #824  
Old 12.01.2015, 09:52
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

wow so many newbies post so much ill informed racist crap on this thread now.

Just waiting for someone to link to fox news as a source for there facts
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  #825  
Old 12.01.2015, 09:56
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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wow so many newbies post so much ill informed racist crap on this thread now.

Just waiting for someone to link to fox news as a source for there facts
And likewise so many libtards trying to justify the ridiculous beliefs that is Islam and arguing that the religion has nothing to do with terrorist acts.

That's what debate is about isn't it?
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  #826  
Old 12.01.2015, 10:21
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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wow so many newbies post so much ill informed racist crap on this thread now.

Just waiting for someone to link to fox news as a source for there facts


http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...ingham-muslims


I would steer clear of London these days as you might get stoned for not having a beard, particularly around the Shorditch/Hoxton areas.
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  #827  
Old 12.01.2015, 10:26
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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And likewise so many libtards trying to justify the ridiculous beliefs that is Islam and arguing that the religion has nothing to do with terrorist acts.

That's what debate is about isn't it?
Debate is great. As long as everyone agrees with me
Freedom of speech is great. As long as people write/say what I like to hear
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  #828  
Old 12.01.2015, 10:26
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Just waiting for someone to link to fox news as a source for there facts
Speaking of Fox News, its now pretty clear where they get their editorial line.
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  #829  
Old 12.01.2015, 10:37
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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It is not Charlie Hebdo that didn't have the right to mock, it's the jackass who killed.
I might be wrong, and DB can correct me if I am, but I think his point is that he'll defend your right to read out Martin Luther King speeches at a KKK rally, but as you're lying there thinking "At least I was right. I have the moral high ground" while having your head kicked in, he's not going to have a lot of sympathy. And that the 'intellecual elite' watching from the sidelines, shouting "yay you" don't seem to be getting their hands dirty helping you out. We pay people to do that for us.

You reap what you sow.
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  #830  
Old 12.01.2015, 10:46
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...ingham-muslims


I would steer clear of London these days as you might get stoned for not having a beard, particularly around the Shorditch/Hoxton areas.
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Speaking of Fox News, its now pretty clear where they get their editorial line.
Something about facts getting in the way of a story methinks.

Doesn't say much for his "Investigative Project on Terrorism" group does it.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-30773297
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  #831  
Old 12.01.2015, 10:50
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

According to some not everyone is welcome to parade with "Je suis Charlie" slogan these days...
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Leaders from Egypt, Turkey and Russia are grossly hypocritical for attending today's Paris march for the journalists murdered at Charlie Hebdo magazine, according to a press charity.

Reporters Without Borders (RWB) says it is "appalled" that leaders of countries including United Arab Emirates and Turkey were present, when it claims those countries continue to persecute journalists in their own regions.

It accused the leaders of trying to "improve their international image" while "spitting on the graves" of the dead cartoonists and journalists of Charlie Hebdo.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015...n_6451742.html
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  #832  
Old 12.01.2015, 10:53
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Countries like Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan and Dubai have a decent freedom of the media in place
Who said Wolli doesn't have a sense of humor

It was interesting to see the Turkish foreign minister in Paris. His regime oppresses the Media and supports Islamist terrorism.
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  #833  
Old 12.01.2015, 10:54
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Something about facts getting in the way of a story methinks.

Doesn't say much for his "Investigative Project on Terrorism" group does it.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-30773297
He did apologise though, which is a very rare thing.
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  #834  
Old 12.01.2015, 10:54
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Is this the real face of freedom of expression



Instead of Facebook Community Standarts they should write Facebook Community Double Standarts
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  #835  
Old 12.01.2015, 11:00
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I might be wrong, and DB can correct me if I am, but I think his point is that he'll defend your right to read out Martin Luther King speeches at a KKK rally, but as you're lying there thinking "At least I was right. I have the moral high ground" while having your head kicked in, he's not going to have a lot of sympathy. And that the 'intellecual elite' watching from the sidelines, shouting "yay you" don't seem to be getting their hands dirty helping you out.

You reap what you sow.
That precisely sums it up IMHO.
For me the whole debate hinges on 'Intent', as in comedy when a joke comes from the right place then it can be racist, homophobic, Islamaphobic etc.. and everyone can laugh together. However when its spiteful, churlish, condescending and targets people at the very bottom echelons of society then you lose my respect somewhat. Fine, carry on an do it to prove some high brow principle on your rights to free speech, but don't expect my applause.
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Old 12.01.2015, 11:06
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Who said Wolli doesn't have a sense of humor

It was interesting to see the Turkish foreign minister in Paris. His regime oppresses the Media and supports Islamist terrorism.
I just read a comment to an article about this thing...

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Doğucan Gelbal · Top commenter
I'm Turkish and I know that our prime minister went just to make himself look like he's against terrorism.
And now, most of our people are going to think that he's against terrorism. Our people are THAT stupid.
Reply · · 3 · 11 hours ago
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015...n_6451742.html
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  #837  
Old 12.01.2015, 11:08
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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It was interesting to see the Turkish foreign minister in Paris. His regime oppresses the Media and supports Islamist terrorism.
I'm sure the cartoonists would have been thrilled to know Bibi was there too.

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Old 12.01.2015, 11:13
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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It was interesting to see the Turkish foreign minister in Paris. His regime oppresses the Media and supports Islamist terrorism.
+1, thanks, you beat me to it
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  #839  
Old 12.01.2015, 11:14
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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wow so many newbies post so much ill informed racist crap on this thread now.
+1 good point, why restrict it to newbies?
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  #840  
Old 12.01.2015, 11:15
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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According to some not everyone is welcome to parade with "Je suis Charlie" slogan these days...


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015...n_6451742.html
Yep. So much for the "freedom of speech..."
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