France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks] - Page 45

Caramelized · #**881** 12.01.2015, 13:20

	Quote:	Kosti
	Where is this coming from? Did you actually understand what the goal of the terrorists was? The Charlie Hebdo cartoons were definitely not part of France`s foreign policy. The French government in the past requested these cartoons not be published, and then had to close down their embassies when the magazine went ahead and published them anyway. All European countries have a problem of terrorism arising from religious fundamentalism, some more, some less. Dont troll the thread.

Have you heard the statement before death from the terrorists ? they said completely different things

Kosti · #**882** 12.01.2015, 13:23

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Scrabbling around looking any other excuse for these terrorist acts than the big obvious cause isn't going to solve the issue. People need to understand Islam is the cause. It sanctions force to impose itself. That's not to say all Muslims are terrorists, but this set of beliefs is behind the terrorist acts we're seeing today. Comparing Islamic terrorism to the IRA or Eta just makes no sense. These organisations had political goals that were localised and achievable. What is the political goal of Islamic terrorists? The long term goal the world over for these terrorists is to impose their religion onto others.

You`ve answered your own question. Imposing a religion is very much a political goal.

If you can stop yourself for going off on a rant based on talking points from Fox News, you`ll realize I am not making excuses.

greenmount · #**883** 12.01.2015, 13:23

	Quote:	Russkov
	Few weeks back: Report: Muslim sentenced to death in Mauritania for apostasy and the infamous blogger case from this week, still due to be tried to apostasy. I don't think you need to be chopping heads off to obviously not be a particularly tolerant system of belief towards people who leave the faith or that choose to become nonbelievers altogether. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but I am an apostate for the Russian Orthodox religion I was born into, won't be baptizing my kids and won't be raising them to believe in god. This has been a minor speed bump at worst in my relationship with my still-religious family. I can't think of a single Muslim acquaintance, from different countries and backgrounds, for whom such an act wouldn't be tantamount to social suicide, even though some would like to. That's not to say that this is an exclusively Muslim phenomenon. Being the child of, say, Indian and Chinese immigrants can bring similar social pressures from insular communities (whom you should marry, etc), but only with Islam do I get the feeling that, within a generation or two, many of us will be adhering to its laws in one way or another whether we like it or not. Demographic trends are going one way and it's not a system of belief that sufficiently differentiates between holy law and law of the land, so something is going to give, perhaps simply democratically. I think some sort of reexamination or conflict (if only ideological) is inevitable. We can laugh at the misplaced sentiment of #jesuicharlie all we want, but I think anti-blasphemy laws (aimed at all faiths as to not discriminate, but really made to appease one) in Europe are a real possibility in the coming decades as a reaction to this attack and many others.

Excellent post, Russkov.

leonie · #**884** 12.01.2015, 13:27

	Quote:	Kosti
	Where is this coming from? Did you actually understand what the goal of the terrorists was? The Charlie Hebdo cartoons were definitely not part of France`s foreign policy. The French government in the past requested these cartoons not be published, and then had to close down their embassies when the magazine went ahead and published them anyway. All European countries have a problem of terrorism arising from religious fundamentalism, some more, some less. Dont troll the thread.

I think that the destruction of Iraq, Syria, Libya etc released fanaticism and fury against the western powers. And to make matters worse most of France’s Muslims are living in poverty and become an angry and dangerous group prone to criminality.

I think it is not true that all European countries have a problem with Islamic terrorism.

#**885** 12.01.2015, 13:32

	Quote:	Kosti
	You`ve answered your own question. Imposing a religion is very much a political goal. If you can stop yourself for going off on a rant based on talking points from Fox News, you`ll realize I am not making excuses.

I don't think it was you that was advocating that the religion played no role in these acts, that's what I was trying to dispel. I don't watch Fox news though, I read the Guardian for my ammunition

do you get it on Cablecom?

Tom1234 · #**886** 12.01.2015, 13:34

	Quote:	leonie
	I think that the destruction of Iraq, Syria, Libya etc released fanaticism and fury against the western powers. And to make matters worse most of France’s Muslims are living in poverty and become an angry and dangerous group prone to criminality. .

I believe 9/11/2001 was long before that.

Was that not fanaticism and fury?

	Quote:	leonie
	I don't think it is not true that all European countries have a problem with Islamic terrorism.

What do you think about the campaign for plain English?

leonie · #**887** 12.01.2015, 13:40

	Quote:	Tom1234
	... What do you think about the campaign for plain English?

I corrected it, thanks

#**888** 12.01.2015, 13:54

In the meantime, Fox News is spreading factual information- how dare he call Birmingham a beautiful city

hey - actually, seriously

http://youtu.be/hwq8Bwr9wUg

Tom1234 · #**889** 12.01.2015, 14:00

	Quote:
	In the meantime, Fox News is spreading factual information- how dare he call Birmingham a beautiful city hey - actually, seriously http://youtu.be/hwq8Bwr9wUg

The tweeted comments about this are excellent:

Wolverhampton is full of wolves.

Birmingham is now to be called just Birming as no ham is allowed.

In Britain the weather switches between Sunni and Shi'ite.

Nuneaton was named during the daylight hours of Ramadan.

Birmingham City Mosque is among the tallest and most sacred in all Islam:

To any of you Americans here on EF who watch Fox News: the above are jokes and not true!

farmadoc · #**890** 12.01.2015, 14:03

	Quote:
	Or the Irish flag, or the Basque flag, or the red flag, or the black flag, or the swastika. I'm beginning to wonder if half of our correspondents on this thread have ever opened a newspaper in the last 40 years...

Tosh. Almost no Muslims are terrorists but almost all terrorists are Muslims.

The reason why most terrorists are Muslims actually has nothing to do with Islam though, it has to do with the lack of success of Islam in the countries to which it spread. Culturally, there's a lot more unIslamic than Islamic in most of West and Central Asia with all sorts of tribalism and saints and ghosts and infanticide and FGM and alcohol and all sorts. And in case you don't believe me, here's a magic potion people in Pakistan use. I don't think I've ever seen anything as antithetical to monotheism before and if these people can say they're Muslim then the definition can really include anyone.

marton · #**891** 12.01.2015, 14:04

	Quote:	leonie
	Couple of weeks ago at least 50 civilians have been killed in Syria by a US-led coalition airstrike. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2015/01/11/252671_us-airstrike-in-syria-may-have.html?rh=1 During the past several years France conducted military operations in Libya, Mali, Chad, Ivory Coast, Central African Repulic, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria. How many civilians have been murdered during these operations? France has to learn from the other European counries which have no Muslim terrorism issue and change its foreign policy.

Good idea, which are the other European countries which have no Muslim terrorism issue?

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Scrabbling around looking any other excuse for these terrorist acts than the big obvious cause isn't going to solve the issue. People need to understand Islam is the cause. It sanctions force to impose itself. That's not to say all Muslims are terrorists, but this set of beliefs is behind the terrorist acts we're seeing today. Comparing Islamic terrorism to the IRA or Eta just makes no sense. These organisations had political goals that were localised and achievable. What is the political goal of Islamic terrorists? The long term goal the world over for these terrorists is to impose their religion onto others.

About "The long term goal the world over for these terrorists is to impose their religion onto others." So why are there so many terrorism acts in Muslim countries? Took the wrong turn on the Autobahn maybe?

bigblue2 · #**892** 12.01.2015, 14:13

	Quote:	farmadoc
	but almost all terrorists are Muslims.

welcome to the forum

and

Tosh

#**893** 12.01.2015, 14:17

	Quote:	marton
	About "The long term goal the world over for these terrorists is to impose their religion onto others." So why are there so many terrorism acts in Muslim countries? Took the wrong turn on the Autobahn maybe?

Lower levels of security means a greater ability to successfully carry out attacks. Additionally, there's a greater ability to blend in without arising suspicion than in non Muslim countries. Also, as an example, look at those carrying out these attacks in Pakistan and Afghanistan, they're carried out by Muslims who believe the country isn't conservative enough.

#**894** 12.01.2015, 14:34

This is promising:
Violence fuels debate among Muslims over interpreting faith

This is a clearer exposition of the situation at hand than any of the posts here. This discourse is taking place, and must. The article also illustrates the difficulties in front of it. A large hard line contingency still believe the massacre was justified, not just the gunmen.

marton · #**895** 12.01.2015, 14:34

	Quote:	farmadoc
	Tosh. Almost no Muslims are terrorists but almost all terrorists are Muslims. The reason why most terrorists are Muslims actually has nothing to do with Islam though, it has to do with the lack of success of Islam in the countries to which it spread. Culturally, there's a lot more unIslamic than Islamic in most of West and Central Asia with all sorts of tribalism and saints and ghosts and infanticide and FGM and alcohol and all sorts. And in case you don't believe me, here's a magic potion people in Pakistan use. I don't think I've ever seen anything as antithetical to monotheism before and if these people can say they're Muslim then the definition can really include anyone.

About " almost all terrorists are Muslims."
You mean apart from these listed terrorist organisations (I gave up after "K" but there are plenty more

;
All Tripura Tiger Force
Akhil Bharat Nepali Ekta Samaj
Aum Shinrikyo
Babbar Khalsa
Balochistan Liberation Army
Communist Party of India
Communist Party of the Philippines
Communist Party of Turkey
Conspiracy of Fire Nuclei
Continuity Irish Republican Army
Cumann na mBan
Donetsk People's Republic
ETA
International Sikh Youth Federation
Irish National Liberation Army
Irish People's Liberation Organisation
Kach and Kahane Chai
Kangleipak Communist Party
Kanglei Yawol Kanna Lup
Kangleipak Communist Party
Khalistan Commando Force
Khalistan Zindabad Force
Komalah
Kurdistan Democratic Party/North
Kurdistan Freedom Falcons
Kurdistan Workers' Party

marton · #**896** 12.01.2015, 14:50

	Quote:	Phos
	This is promising: Violence fuels debate among Muslims over interpreting faith This is a clearer exposition of the situation at hand than any of the posts here. This discourse is taking place, and must. The article also illustrates the difficulties in front of it. A large hard line contingency still believe the massacre was justified, not just the gunmen.

Thanks, interesting article.
Good point that Charles insulted everybody but only one culture resorted to violence.
Pity the Muslim religion has no equivalent of "excommunication"; so far as I know!

farmadoc · #**897** 12.01.2015, 14:54

	Quote:	marton
	About " almost all terrorists are Muslims." You mean apart from these listed terrorist organisations (I gave up after "K" but there are plenty more ; All Tripura Tiger Force Akhil Bharat Nepali Ekta Samaj Aum Shinrikyo Babbar Khalsa Balochistan Liberation Army Communist Party of India Communist Party of the Philippines Communist Party of Turkey Conspiracy of Fire Nuclei Continuity Irish Republican Army Cumann na mBan Donetsk People's Republic ETA International Sikh Youth Federation Irish National Liberation Army Irish People's Liberation Organisation Kach and Kahane Chai Kangleipak Communist Party Kanglei Yawol Kanna Lup Kangleipak Communist Party Khalistan Commando Force Khalistan Zindabad Force Komalah Kurdistan Democratic Party/North Kurdistan Freedom Falcons Kurdistan Workers' Party

At least half of those are composed of Muslims, and ETA and the IRA are no longer armed/active. However all of these are localised struggles. And they're also really obscure. Terror against western targets is perpetrated by people calling themselves Muslims. Exclusively.

marton · #**898** 12.01.2015, 15:05

	Quote:	farmadoc
	At least half of those are composed of Muslims, and ETA and the IRA are no longer armed/active. However all of these are localised struggles. And they're also really obscure. Terror against western targets is perpetrated by people calling themselves Muslims. Exclusively.

Always good to try to change the statement when you don't like the answer.

The statement was "almost all terrorists are Muslims" and as already posted "TOSH".

farmadoc · #**899** 12.01.2015, 15:11

	Quote:	marton
	Always good to try to change the statement when you don't like the answer. The statement was "almost all terrorists are Muslims" and as already posted "TOSH".

I do like the answer. I'm also glad to learn that no one in the PKK are Muslim. But again, the fact that they are is irrelevant. However denying that the news is full of Islamic terror or claiming that the next terrorist attack on London or New York is as likely to be in the name of Christianity as Islam is farcical.

#**900** 12.01.2015, 15:24

	Quote:	marton
	Thanks, interesting article. Good point that Charles insulted everybody but only one culture resorted to violence. Pity the Muslim religion has no equivalent of "excommunication"; so far as I know!

"Excommunication" as in curbing Free Speech in Islam? Of course there is, flogging and decapitation.