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  #921  
Old 12.01.2015, 19:28
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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When did lieberman say that non jews shouldn't be allowed to live in Israel.

JBZ86: Jews were prosecuted in all Muslim countries. Luckily for the Jews they could escape and leave the Arabs to fester in their failed countries (or emigratel
Why you people sense make not
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  #922  
Old 12.01.2015, 19:45
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...y-9972912.html

Tom
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  #923  
Old 12.01.2015, 19:49
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Freedom of speech campaign didn't last long then?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rticle-2906539
She spoke freely, he spoke freely, people complained freely, and he apologized for his unprofessionalism, and resigned due to his own incompetence. It all looks like free speech. What's the problem?
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  #924  
Old 12.01.2015, 20:03
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Islam in the UK is discussed tonight on BBC-One channel, Panorama programme, (Usually a very good TV program)
It is on Swiss time from 21:30 to 22:00 tonight (Repeated later in the week)

http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/ddyfz2/panorama--after-paris-the-battle-for-british-islam---panorama
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  #925  
Old 12.01.2015, 20:48
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Islam in the UK is discussed tonight on BBC-One channel, Panorama programme, (Usually a very good TV program)
It is on Swiss time from 21:30 to 22:00 tonight (Repeated later in the week)

http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/ddyfz2/panorama--after-paris-the-battle-for-british-islam---panorama
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I wouldn't expect more than an extended Newsnight report given they've only had a couple of days to cobble something together.
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  #926  
Old 12.01.2015, 21:03
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Nobody hear is complaining and neither is the French government, but as an American I'm deeply disappointed that President Obama did not fly to Paris to attend the rally in person rather than give a sound bite from the White House. If Biden's too busy, then send Kerry---at least he can speak French!

Actions are more important than words.
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On the other hand, I am perfectly glad Obama and the US did not show much presence yesterday. It underlines the fact that this is not purely a US issue.
I'm afraid that this is giving the impression that the United States is more worried about not offending Muslims or Muslim allies than supporting France. There may have been only a fraction of the number of people killed than at the WTC, Pentagon, and Pennsylvania, but make no mistake---1/7 (or 7/1) is France's 9/11.
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  #927  
Old 12.01.2015, 21:20
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

World leaders leading a million marchers in Paris:

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  #928  
Old 12.01.2015, 21:21
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I'm afraid that this is giving the impression that the United States is more worried about not offending Muslims or Muslim allies than supporting France. There may have been only a fraction of the number of people killed than at the WTC, Pentagon, and Pennsylvania, but make no mistake---1/7 (or 7/1) is France's 9/11.
I can't imagine anyone doubting US and French commitment to their friendship. We have political capital to not show up. Despite Obama and brain damaged liberals, the US will not be going Sharia anytime soon. I think the US absence makes it clear that this is about western civilization, not a secretive US agenda.

Besides, it may have been more divisive and diminishing for the US to attend. The key message here was French unity. The government needs all the political capital it can scrounge up, as some upcoming measures may be unpopular.
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  #929  
Old 12.01.2015, 21:37
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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No, I don't see any difference -- murdering civilians is a terrible crime in any country. All I am saying is that minimizing military adventures abroad possibly helps to fight terrorism at home.
hmmmm, so I guess you would prefer that the rest of the world simply permitted the people of Syria to suffer civil war for the next 20 years?



as for the actual topic, I apologize that this is in Swiss German (and further apologize if it has been posted elsewhere and I missed it), but I found this discussion interesting for a couple of reasons:

1. the poor Muslim woman obviously feels compelled, like many Muslims, to first express her outrage. I actually don't think rational Muslims have any obligation whatsoever to apologize for these horrific acts, nor do they have any obligation to "defend" or "explain" Islam, and I wish we would stop insisting that they do so.

2. I remain disappointed in how few people actually recognize that the problem has nothing to do with Islam, but rather with politics and oppression. Islam is the tool du jour, obviously, but the real problems are not intrinsic to Islam.

3. I loathe it when people try to draw a nexus between these acts of terrorism and the presence of western military forces in the middle east or Africa. that nexus exists without question when rebels attack US or other military convoys in Iraq or Syria, but to suggest that the murder of unarmed civilians in an office in Paris has any nexus whatsoever to a civil war in Syria or elsewhere is just plain absurd.

4. it disgusts me to see Netanyahu and others try to milk this tragedy for purposes of pushing their own political agenda.

you will have to click the link to the "Terror in Frankreich" piece for the video:

http://www.srf.ch/sendungen/arena
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  #930  
Old 12.01.2015, 21:53
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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World leaders leading a million marchers in Paris:

The best was Erdogan's reaction on Netanyahu's presence.
Perhaps he showed a rare spark of self-knowledge and didn't go himself.
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  #931  
Old 12.01.2015, 22:10
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Islam in the UK is discussed tonight on BBC-One channel, Panorama programme, (Usually a very good TV program)
It is on Swiss time from 21:30 to 22:00 tonight (Repeated later in the week)

http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/ddyfz2/panorama--after-paris-the-battle-for-british-islam---panorama
.
Thank you. I thought this was great. Many great points made, by Muslims themselves, that would have been ridiculed and sanitized by PC liberals had non-Muslims made the exact same point. I hope those days of PC Liberals stifling free speech and truth are over. PC Liberals reinforce the victimization narrative, thereby impeding the progress good Muslims could make. Enough already.
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  #932  
Old 12.01.2015, 22:19
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Enough already.
You know it's not just "PC Liberals" who find this endless whinging about Islam tiresome.

There's more than a billion of them and they're here to stay.

Get over it.
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  #933  
Old 12.01.2015, 22:37
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Thank you. I thought this was great. Many great points made, by Muslims themselves, that would have been ridiculed and sanitized by PC liberals had non-Muslims made the exact same point. I hope those days of PC Liberals stifling free speech and truth are over. PC Liberals reinforce the victimization narrative, thereby impeding the progress good Muslims could make. Enough already.
Ah yes, thank Dog we've got the Tea Party and Fox News to put the record straight hey

http://youtu.be/hwq8Bwr9wUg

or are you Judge Janine, she has great ideas and solutions:

http://youtu.be/0w2ZS231BAQ
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  #934  
Old 12.01.2015, 22:47
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Thank you. I thought this was great. Many great points made, by Muslims themselves, that would have been ridiculed and sanitized by PC liberals had non-Muslims made the exact same point. I hope those days of PC Liberals stifling free speech and truth are over. PC Liberals reinforce the victimization narrative, thereby impeding the progress good Muslims could make. Enough already.
Isn't the right term "libtards" or some such?

By using the term "PC liberal" you are reinforcing the PC narrative and thereby impeding the progress good libtards could make!!
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  #935  
Old 12.01.2015, 23:30
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Interesting article about satire in Muslim countries here.
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  #936  
Old 12.01.2015, 23:40
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Interesting article about satire in Muslim countries here.
Reminds me, a Muslim friend drew my attention to this video some years ago - still very funny
It is called Achmed, the dead terrorist
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  #937  
Old 12.01.2015, 23:53
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Who said Wolli doesn't have a sense of humor

It was interesting to see the Turkish foreign minister in Paris. His regime oppresses the Media and supports Islamist terrorism.

His regime does NOT oppress the media, but indeed pressurizes the media in many ways. A weird situation in so far as the Turkish consitution guarantees the right of the freedom of the press. Turkey does NOT support Islamist terrorism but Mr Erdogan often does, at least when he likes to do so. He also arranges to get Islamist terrorists killed when he likes to do so. Amazing that even ISIS terrorists behaved like house cats when coming close to Turkey


Back up again. There is freedom of press in Lebanon clearly, a freedom with limits in the Maghreb and in Egypt and in Dubai and in Qatar as well as in Jordan
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  #938  
Old 12.01.2015, 23:57
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Free choice might be true of Christianity, but there is no opting out of Islam, short of going on the run or facing the consequences of apostasy - beheading in Sharia governed societies.

Most Arab countries are NOT Sharia governed ..... exceptions are the KSA and the Emirate of Sharjah
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  #939  
Old 12.01.2015, 23:57
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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His regime does NOT oppress the media, but indeed pressurizes the media in many ways. A weird situation in so far as the Turkish consitution guarantees the right of the freedom of the press. Turkey does NOT support Islamist terrorism but Mr Erdogan often does, at least when he likes to do so. He also arranges to get Islamist terrorists killed when he likes to do so. Amazing that even ISIS terrorists behaved like house cats when coming close to Turkey


Back up again. There is freedom of press in Lebanon clearly, a freedom with limits in the Maghreb and in Egypt and in Dubai and in Qatar as well as in Jordan
Some theories being floated by both Turkey and Russia here about the "reasons" behind these attacks.
According to the Russians - America has been behind all Islam terrorist attacks for the last 10 years.

Link is to the ft so you may need to be a subscriber!
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Old 13.01.2015, 00:03
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Zwingli drowned hundreds of people for insisting on being baptized again. Clearly, religious people don't like their beliefs challenged. But in the West, in Christianity, we got fed up with the senseless violence. Can't we ask Muslims to quickly get fed up with the senseless violence occurring today just the same? Is that really such an evil and racist request?

Most Muslims already GOT fed up with senseless violence. That a small but violent minority still glorifies violence is regrettable indeed. The denominational violence in Northern Ireland until not so very long ago and the killings of doctors carrying out abortions in the USA speak a different language than you.
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