Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1021  
Old 13.01.2015, 20:43
Slaphead's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,230
Groaned at 34 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 9,408 Times in 2,870 Posts
Slaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
A high ranking police chief tasked with investigating the shooting of one of the victims turns gun on himself.



Pass me a tinfoil hat, but I think he was onto something
I read about that today. It appears that he did the deed last Wednesday, after the attacks.

There's so much in this that really doesn't add up, and if I was a tin foil hatter then I would say this has all the markings of a false flag op, as I believe somebody has already mentioned in this thread.
Reply With Quote
  #1022  
Old 13.01.2015, 21:08
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Pot makes it easy to find all kinds of details in any situation. This one has all the answers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSmSGq3fSLM
Code 24 = setup!


So who did they bury here?

Charlie Hebdo attack: fallen policeman Ahmed Merabet buried in Bobigny


People carry the coffin of murdered police officer Ahmed Merabet after a funeral service at the Bobigny mosque on Tuesday. Photograph: Jacques Brinon/AP

Last edited by Phos; 13.01.2015 at 21:23.
Reply With Quote
  #1023  
Old 13.01.2015, 21:11
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,538
Groaned at 326 Times in 266 Posts
Thanked 13,818 Times in 7,134 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

A very interesting article, by Yasmin Alibhai Brown
Far too many Western muslims speak of freedom as a sin

Quote:
Large numbers of Western Muslims are disturbed by the rights and liberties they have inherited and sometimes reject them. Meanwhile Muslims who have never known real freedom yearn for, indeed die to get those same liberties and human rights. That gap between Muslims who have and don’t want and those who crave and can’t have grows bigger all the time. For too many British Muslims, familiarity breeds contempt for freedom. They talk about it not as a priceless entitlement but a peril, out-of-control hedonism and lasciviousness – as a sin. I find that deplorable.

After my book Refusing the Veil came out last year, some female Muslim acquaintances organised a soiree for me to read from it and discuss its contents. These were reasonable, educated women. Here are some of the comments made:

“Why did you have to write this; who gave you permission?”

“Even to think these thoughts is wrong, and you go and publish them? If you were in a Muslim country you would be in jail.”

“If your mother was alive she would have slapped you for writing this.”

When I replied that my mother refused the veil when she was 22, the woman came back: “Then I feel sorry for you. She was the sinner and she made you one too.”

“OK I have not read the book because it will dirty my pure thoughts, but if you are a Muslim, you follow Islamic rules without question. Are you even a Muslim?”

Only two out of 14 women defended my right to write the book. But then said they could never challenge Islamic practices so openly.

What has led to this lethal closing of the Muslim mind? Third-generation Western Muslims are less liberated than were my mother’s generation in the Forties and Fifties. White women who convert are even more rule-bound and obedient. It just shows human history is not a straight road towards enlightenment.

Those of us who value freedom need to understand better what it means. Especially in a world which is both coalescing and splitting apart, where technology has unleashed hope and possibilities as well as limitless hate, where political and religious control is tightening. To seek to be free is a big responsibility. Too big and scary for some people, Western Muslims in particular. This is the debate that needs to open up now within Islam. Will it? No. And that’s our tragedy.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...n-9971118.html

An older, but also interesting article. Salman Rushdie, the writer who's still alive.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/b...anaticism.html

Last edited by greenmount; 13.01.2015 at 21:55.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #1024  
Old 13.01.2015, 22:16
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Can you go past Russell Brand hair and tatooes - and listen to his reaction to Sky News Judge Jeanine violent hate rant?

http://youtu.be/RPK7t5B2UN4
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #1025  
Old 13.01.2015, 22:41
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,637
Groaned at 407 Times in 351 Posts
Thanked 17,249 Times in 9,274 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
There's nothing in the Koran forbidding depictions of Mohammed. The idea is to prevent idol-worship such as in Christianity. A very interesting article about it here:

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/wo...hootings-paris
Unlike the Jewish and Christian religions who do forbid images of God ( 3rd Commandment), the Christians do not take this seriously whereas the Jews do.

Strange that Islam picked up the ten Commandments (sura Al-An'am 6:151) but not the third one; although they do not specifically state these are the Commandants from the tablets that God gave to Moses. Seems strange as Moses is the person with most mentions in the Koran (136 times versus (oddly) only 4 times for Muhammed)

In Islam they not only take the prohibition very seriously but also the depiction of all humans and animals is discouraged.

Last edited by marton; 13.01.2015 at 22:55.
Reply With Quote
  #1026  
Old 13.01.2015, 22:47
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,986
Groaned at 69 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 5,074 Times in 1,802 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
Can you go past Russell Brand hair and tatooes - and listen to his reaction to Sky News Judge Jeanine violent hate rant?

http://youtu.be/RPK7t5B2UN4
while I appreciate the sentiment, as a woman of Christian Arab descent I suspect that Judge Jeanine's ancestors ended up in America precisely because they were tired of being subjected to abject hatred, violence and discrimination. and yes, I do see the irony in that.



I actually struggle with the concept that the antidote to hate is love and compassion, I really do. I mean, I want to believe it, and I certainly try to live my life as if it is true, but I have to confess I wonder. I also have to confess that I wonder if dudes like Brand were preaching about the need for love and compassion as the antidote for 2,000 years of abuses by the Catholic Church, or any other organization he might have had his knickers in a bunch over during the course of his lifetime - I certainly wasn't preaching for that as the solution, I have to also confess that. isn't love and compassion, after all, the solution to people like Judge Jeanine, rather than ridicule?

Reply With Quote
  #1027  
Old 13.01.2015, 22:54
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,806
Groaned at 227 Times in 191 Posts
Thanked 22,512 Times in 9,559 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Pot makes it easy to find all kinds of details in any situation. This one has all the answers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSmSGq3fSLM
Code 24 = setup!


So who did they bury here?

Charlie Hebdo attack: fallen policeman Ahmed Merabet buried in Bobigny


People carry the coffin of murdered police officer Ahmed Merabet after a funeral service at the Bobigny mosque on Tuesday. Photograph: Jacques Brinon/AP
Is it just me or is there something lacking here?

Doesn't a policeman who is killed while on duty normally get a grand funeral with the coffin carried by uniformed colleagues and all the pomp of office?

It could be of course that the family didn't want that?
Reply With Quote
  #1028  
Old 13.01.2015, 22:56
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,806
Groaned at 227 Times in 191 Posts
Thanked 22,512 Times in 9,559 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Unlike the Jewish and Christian religions who do forbid images of God ( 3rd Commandment), the Christians do not take this seriously whereas the Jews do.
I believe there are some sects of protestantism who do also forbid images.

I understand some Amish groups object to having their picture taken for example.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #1029  
Old 13.01.2015, 23:09
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,637
Groaned at 407 Times in 351 Posts
Thanked 17,249 Times in 9,274 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
A high ranking police chief tasked with investigating the shooting of one of the victims turns gun on himself.



Pass me a tinfoil hat, but I think he was onto something
Must say I have been struggling with this that has been reported in many newspapers.

He was based in Limoges which is ca. 400 Km from Paris so it is hard to believe he had any sort of close connection with these incidents; none of the reports I read have given any details of his involvement.
Stating he was investigating the shooting of one of the victims is also odd; why pick one victim?
How was the shooting of one victim disconnected from the other shootings so it could be properly investigated on its own?

The report said "He had reportedly interviewed families of Charlie Hebdo victims in the hours after the attack." So did he do that by phone or were they in Limoges?
It does not seem possible he travelled to Paris, did interviews and travelled back "in the hours after the attack"?
I can imagine interviewing the families of victims could be very depressing especially if they blamed the police for failing to protect the victims.

There must be very many senior police who are Paris based and who have a much closer link to these events and people.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #1030  
Old 13.01.2015, 23:25
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Is it just me or is there something lacking here?

Doesn't a policeman who is killed while on duty normally get a grand funeral with the coffin carried by uniformed colleagues and all the pomp of office?

It could be of course that the family didn't want that?
Article states Hollande placed the flag on the coffin, and this is after some official ceremony.


Quote:
View Post
I believe there are some sects of protestantism who do also forbid images.

I understand some Amish groups object to having their picture taken for example.
There have been periods of iconoclasm when protestants tore down any statues and images around churches. While there are some religious reasoning around these actions, such as the veneration of saints, I also wonder if it was teutonic revulsion over Italian gawdiness.




Quote:
View Post
In Islam they not only take the prohibition very seriously but also the depiction of all humans and animals is discouraged.
There have been periods in history where it was allowed in Islamic art. But which parts of it are interpretation of scripture, and simply tradition. Surely there have been different developments of thoughts around the various schools. The gist of my question is if this outrage over the caricatures are mainly one particular sect of Islam, one principle verse and its interpretation, or all simply a matter of tradition.

I just wonder if these cartoons truly incense all 1.x billion Muslims, or just being exaggerrated by an opportunistic few.
Reply With Quote
  #1031  
Old 13.01.2015, 23:32
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

[QUOTE=crazygringo;231835) I have to also confess that. isn't love and compassion, after all, the solution to people like Judge Jeanine, rather than ridicule?[/QUOTE]

If she was just a 'nutter with a personal grudge' - yes. But this is the point Russel makes, is that what she says is very deliberate and calculated- and part of the Murdoch empire propaganda machine- for all sorts of sinister reasons, as explained.

Don't forget too, that this thread is about the events in France, and how to 'deal' with the Muslim population of France, not Saudi Arabia or even Pakistan.
Reply With Quote
  #1032  
Old 13.01.2015, 23:32
MrVertigo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 3,210
Groaned at 86 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 5,788 Times in 2,254 Posts
MrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Is it just me or is there something lacking here?

Doesn't a policeman who is killed while on duty normally get a grand funeral with the coffin carried by uniformed colleagues and all the pomp of office?

It could be of course that the family didn't want that?
there was an official ceremony for all 3 police agents today

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MrVertigo for this useful post:
  #1033  
Old 13.01.2015, 23:44
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
If she was just a 'nutter with a personal grudge' - yes. But this is the point Russel makes, is that what she says is very deliberate and calculated- and part of the Murdoch empire propaganda machine- for all sorts of sinister reasons, as explained.
Its not really as simple as that. There are people, believe it or not, who find Islam in itself to be an outright threat. I know some people whose families have been direct victims of sectarian violence in there past. I've heard it from people from India and Southeast Asia. I've also heard stories from local Serbs. I've also heard from many Lebanese who tell of how Beirut was like the Paris of the Middle East until the rise of a violent form of Islam destroyed everything. Their narrative is real, and not imagined. In the context of today's events, there are people who are freaked out by Islam, yet we kind of set them aside and label them Islamophobes. When situations like these arise, they find an opportunity to blurt out. I suspect Judge Jeannie is from this kind of Lebanese background.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #1034  
Old 13.01.2015, 23:53
MrVertigo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 3,210
Groaned at 86 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 5,788 Times in 2,254 Posts
MrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Opportunism is never far away even or should I say especially during exceptionnal events like the Paris rally. So It is well known that Netanyahu was not invited but he ignored that because of the israeli elections and Lieberman was in Paris (which triggered French to invite Abbas).

Another attention whore is Sarkozy who managed to appear on the front line for this historical moment...a kind of giant selfie for the dwarf Sarkozy if you want. So everyone in France is mocking him and the creativity of people has no limits.

I like especially this one ....

but my favourite is this one
__________________
Resist, support, donate: ACLU
They tried to bury us, they did not know that we are seeds (Mexican proverb)
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank MrVertigo for this useful post:
  #1035  
Old 14.01.2015, 00:09
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Why would I not believe it- of course I do. And so do I understand there are no easy solutions- certainly not Judge Jeanine's inciting hatred and killing without true judging or process of law. And yes, I understand the history about Lebanon too.

But she does represent the Murdoch Empire, and voices his message too. She is a very intelligent woman, and her rantings are followed by 100s of 1000s in the USA, who hang onto her every word.

In the meantime, a uk journalist is asked to resign for saying to a Jewish woman 'some people might say that Palestinians feel persecuted by Jews'.
Do you not think that under USA law, she should be asked to resign for her violent rant- or Fow News be sued for it?
Reply With Quote
  #1036  
Old 14.01.2015, 00:19
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
Why would I not believe it- of course I do. And so do I understand there are no easy solutions- certainly not Judge Jeanine's inciting hatred and killing without true judging or process of law. And yes, I understand the history about Lebanon too.

But she does represent the Murdoch Empire, and voices his message too. She is a very intelligent woman, and her rantings are followed by 100s of 1000s in the USA, who hang onto her every word.

In the meantime, a uk journalist is asked to resign for saying to a Jewish woman 'some people might say that Palestinians feel persecuted by Jews'.
Do you not think that under USA law, she should be asked to resign for her violent rant- or Fow News be sued for it?
The BBC journalist did not resign due to legal issues. He resigned voluntarily. You can certainly lobby Fox News for her resignation, but their reaction is up to their own discretion. She's become a Personality Product, and she likely has that spot because she draws an audience. In the end Fox News is about ratings that they turn into advertising revenue.

For legal grounds, you would need a team of expensive lawyers. I assure you that in America, if there was an opportunity to sue, they would be suing. Brilliant Jewish lawyers would probably be at the front of such lawsuits. In the meantime, that is her soap box. If you don't like it, don't watch it. I don't even think its available here. But ultimately, you can't really control what people choose to talk about.
Reply With Quote
  #1037  
Old 14.01.2015, 00:27
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Wow, that was totally unhinged. Advocating the indiscriminate killing of people is illegal, and should definitely be prosecuted. Is that happening? If not, why not?

We have due processes. If she let out hate speech that is illegal, she should definitely be held accountable and prosecuted.
Wow, you've changed your tune, haven't you
Reply With Quote
  #1038  
Old 14.01.2015, 00:30
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
Wow, you've changed your tune, haven't you
How? She was unhinged and over the top, and if she did something illegal, she should be prosecuted. If she didn't, and she's within here bounds, what is there to do?

But you originally said she was calling for the indiscriminate killing of people, which I took your word for. But on further consideration, she really didn't do that, did she?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #1039  
Old 14.01.2015, 01:05
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bern
Posts: 70
Groaned at 42 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 191 Times in 82 Posts
farmadoc has earned some respectfarmadoc has earned some respect
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
a uk journalist is asked to resign for saying to a Jewish woman 'some people might say that Palestinians feel persecuted by Jews'.
Asked to resign by whom? And to give that as the reason is incredibly disingenuous, it's absolutely not the reason for any controversy.
Reply With Quote
  #1040  
Old 14.01.2015, 02:32
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,023
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Quote:
View Post
Hosting and training Islamist terrorists for starters.

Where and how ? Pakistan is neither hosting nor training Islamist radicals


If you really know more you might inform us


************************************************** **********


And there is no indication that the Pakistanis want to be Arabs, none at all
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
charlie hebdo




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe) olygirl International affairs/politics 2904 15.11.2018 13:45
Terrorist attack in Nice, France - truck runs over crowd Troublawesome International affairs/politics 347 08.01.2017 14:22
Will borders with CH be affected after terrorist attacks? McTAVGE Daily life 19 15.11.2015 18:14
How many EF members had actually read Charlie Hebdo before this week? Guest International affairs/politics 114 17.01.2015 08:58
UK Passport office in France - a cautionary tale maxhd Complaints corner 21 07.09.2010 10:34


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0