I know! Osama Bin Laden was a freedom fighter amirite!?!

Looking past the hair and tatoos...I see more hair and tatoos. He's found a moron on Fox News. Well, he's not the first - it's what pays John Stewart's salary. But the link to Rupert Murdoch is erroneous. He's a right wing nut job, he owns a right wing nut job media empire that employs right wing nut jobs. If he didn't own Fox, it'd still be just as right wing - he didn't make his employees right wing nor did he make his audience right wing. And to think he's directing his juggernaut media empire to benefit a tiny oil interest is bizarre.

Osama Bin Laden was a Saudi Business Tycoon who purchased Services from the CIA in Peshawar


By your definition, the states of Pakistan of course are states of the USA, WANNABE USA STATES

Wolli. Are you for real?

I know we can't have an open and rather honest discussion on EF, on this topic (which is rather sad), but insulting our intelligence that way...O.K. Whatever.

Edit: Not totally unrelated....funerals for the two islamist brothers were held in Pakistan.

Oh come on, greenmount, the discussion has been very open!

Why is this becoming all about the US and FoxNews?

Looks like EF'ers haven't got the concept yet either

You need help!

Hmmm, the Mayor of Rotterdam (NL) who btw is a Muslim immigrant, shares the same opinion just like me, "if you don't like the west, than pack your bags and FAFF OFF".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...e-freedom.html

I was told my opinion is stupid here... So is the Mayor of Rotterdam stupid as well or maybe I can become the Mayor of Geneva?!

Seriously, we need more Muslim voices like these to be heard, these people should be in the news and be an example.

Well done and he would get my vote if I lived in Rotterdam.

Anybody else think this is politically incorrect?! You can faff off as well

Don't forget that Rotterdam was the city of Pim Fortuin.

Nobody attempting to step in Pim's footsteps can afford to waste time with politically correct apologisms.

This is not the first time the present mayor has made statements of this nature.

Oh, bu.. b.. but, it may not be good for an extremist's self-esteem.

Reminds me of when I tried reading up on the subject of apostasy and atheism on a Muslim forum to educate myself. Came across a thread where a woman was having a crisis of faith, saying she had been having some conversations with her professor and classmates on Facebook about science and that it made a lot more sense to her than anything in Koran. Most of the discussions on the forum seemed reasonable up until that point, but the majority of responses to her question were along the lines of, "Umm, first of all, what are you doing communicating with men who aren't your father or brothers?" An uphill battle to say the least.

And yet, this message could be grabbed, used (or/and twisted) in the most cynical way by the wrong kind of people.

Strangely, no.

A work colleague of mine was formerly with Fox News. She's not at all right wing. When asked, she says it was just a job.

Of course I'm not disagreeing with the thrust of your argument, mind you, just being pedantic.

Interesting. There are several aspects of modern European culture I find thoroughly objectionable.


Should I, therefore, also "faff off", or do different rules apply to blue eyed white men like me?

In what way? Boris Johnson grabbed and used it, then says, "I'm not bothered by civil liberties stuff for terror suspects". When an integrated Muslim says it, it is great leadership. When a non-Muslim leader says it, it is racist oppression. Same statement, same meaning. Is that racism?

surely its about context and who says it and when. I don't think Boris Johnson is a racist so if he said that I would agree with him but if say Nigel Farage said it then I would be highly suspicious of his motives.

I'm just amused by the fact that civil liberties are REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT and NOT AT ALL IMPORTANT at the same time.


Western values, eh? Aye, when they suit...

Or Marine Le Pen, or Geert Wilders, or...., or....

who said that civil liberties are not important? are we not allowed to be suspicious of someone's motives?

Must have missed it- where did she propose a Court of law to Judge fairly who is, or isn't, a terrorist? Where would she draw, and expect others to draw when executing her 'orders'- the line? Could you enlighten me about where YOU would decide on who needs to be killed or not- in this context. In the Paris case, it was quite obvious and clear, and they were killed- but in many cases it would not. Pray tell.

Not what happened is not about the USA, or Saudi Arabia or Pakistan- but about the situation in France- which is totally different, with mostly peaceful and non threatening and 'terrorist' Muslims. Comparing what happens in Nigeria or wherever does not help finding solutions for France as a country, does it?

But when Murdoch and his pals in his big empire clearly appropriate what is happening in Paris and in France, to lie (the Birmingham rant was very funny, but... just illustrates how well their 'facts and research' are poor and biased) and misuse to sway those US (later edit, cannot reply to comment sorry) citizens who already hate Muslims and immigrants in general, many of which and probably the majority, Fox News watchers- then it is very concerning imho.