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  #1301  
Old 18.01.2015, 18:57
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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This perspective and polemic that US and allies attack the 'Muslim World' is big part of the problem. Western military actions have been along the lines of attacking terrorists and tyrants, often on behalf of Muslims themselves. These actions align with geopolitical and economic interests, pragmatically. But to state that the West attacks Muslims to steal their oil IS the Islamist Extremist's narrative. It is what motivates radical terrorism today. I think its a big distortion of the truth and needs to be more lucidly understood.
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Old 18.01.2015, 19:21
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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The gunmen who did the deed weren't morons. Unlike most terrorists (who are often eager to die on site for their cause), they did their business and left unscathed. The two 'morons' who were subsequently accused and killed (therefore unable to tell any story) were implicated by an ID conspicuously left behind in a getaway car. I don't find it a stretch at all that the perps and the dead brothers could be two different pairs of men.

Furthermore, Hamyd Mourad, the alleged third Charlie Hebdo participant turned himself in immediately upon discovering he was named, in part because he has a solid alibi and ostensibly in order to avoid getting taken out as a "terrorist" like the Kouachi brothers. I doubt we'll hear much more about him.

Ridiculous post. "The gunmen weren't morons". Because they put socks on their heads and managed to avoid being taken down by unarmed cartoonists? Of course they were morons. They shot some random people, screamed something about vengeance, abandoned their car with all their stuff in it. Drove pointlessly north in a different car, stole some food and fuel, realised there was nowhere north to run and then drove to back south paper factory where they died. Nothing about the situation requires a weird redneck conspiracy. But nice try.
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Old 18.01.2015, 19:35
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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...you can't use this guy in the plot. His name came up like all kind of other names came up and yes, he was out of the picture very quickly. He was NEVER an "alleged third participant". If he was named so by the media, blame the media, not the police.
Well just try and find ANY 'news' source (today) admitting who originally accused Mourad. The closest thing I can find is a NYT story suggesting that the unnamed "officials" blaming the Kouachi brothers were the same ones blaming Mourad. If you've got an on-the-record source (not just a hunch) laying all blame exclusively on "the media" I'm ready to see it.

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...they put socks on their heads and managed to avoid being taken down by unarmed cartoonists?...
Who says they had "socks on their heads"? Besides unarmed cartoonists, they killed two policemen, at least one of whom was on duty as a bodyguard — so most likely armed.

Exactly how do you know that the guys who "shot some random [sic] people" are the same ones who "drove pointlessly north...stole some food and fuel, realised there was nowhere north to run and then drove to back south paper factory where they died"??
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Last edited by Texaner; 18.01.2015 at 19:46.
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Old 18.01.2015, 19:44
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Well just try and find ANY 'news' source (today) admitting who originally accused Mourad.
Sorry but I only watch French media on that one. If you trust other media sources to enlighten the world about the whereabouts of the Charlie Hebdo attack, be my guess - I don't.
Fact is, he was not accused nor arrested, he just walked in and sorted it out. Done. No accusation ever, just the names put together in the media because the police wanted to interrogate him. Interrogate does not mean accuse, it be one is in Guantanamo. Sorry if your media don't explain things, French media do.
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Old 18.01.2015, 19:53
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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...Sorry if your media don't explain things, French media do.
There is no "my media" — I use whatever my Google.ch searches yield. I'm limited to the English and German languages, so French media (particularly in French) isn't an option for me.

In any case, presumably, you have one or more "French media" sources you can share, admitting that Hamyd Mourad's accusation was media-driven and otherwise unofficial...?
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Old 18.01.2015, 20:42
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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- they can still count on Western apologists to deny their actions have aything to do with Islam.

Why ? Because everyone knows that "Islam is a Religion of peace". These flights of fancy have consequences. They endanger citizens of the West.
The West is somewhat paralyzed by ignorance, some by fear. There is and has been concerted effort to shut down any association between terrorism and Islam. We see this from Obama to forums such as this. The point to make clear is that we are not in a fight against Islam. We are not in a fight against Muslims. But without clearly identifying what it is we are against, there is no way of ever defeating it. Pentagon strategist have already pointed this out.

Western Islamist apologists have truly been a disgrace, and have helped to continue to propagate the problem. I think this Charlie Hebdo incident has broken their stranglehold on free speech and the discussion that needs to take place.

Al-Sisi already called it out. Newly elected Tunisian President also identified it. More and more Muslims are speaking out. For me, the clearest identification that makes sense comes from British Muslim Dr. Qanta Ahmed. Here she calls it out- We are not up against Islam and Muslims, we're up against Islamism:

How to save Islam from Islamists

This is in the same kind of differentiation between Jews, Judaism and Zionism.

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Old 18.01.2015, 21:31
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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...Here she calls it out- We are not up against Islam and Muslims, we're up against Islamism:

How to save Islam from Islamists

This is in the same kind of differentiation between Jews, Judaism and Zionism.

Kindly explain
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  #1308  
Old 18.01.2015, 21:36
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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...This is in the same kind of differentiation between Jews, Judaism and Zionism.
It's interesting (to say the least) how you persist in weaseling that (baseless) conclusion into your posts.

As I have already pointed out (and you've presumed to downplay as irrelevant), Zionism — by definition — differs from 'Jews' and 'Judaism' in that it asserts a modern territorial 'right' to the land long ago occupied by 'Jews' — but without requiring any of the conditions spelled out in the Hebrew scriptures. Judaism — by definition — does no such thing. Projecting your personal theological presuppositions upon one or the other changes essentially nothing.

Thus, 'Jews' and 'Judaism' are (according to your agenda) somehow presumed righteously entitled to steal territory from people who have lived there for many centuries, after a) 'Jews' and 'Judaism' were driven from it by the Romans in 70AD, as promised by the Hebrew scriptures in general (and the Christian scriptures in particular), and b) the newly occupying 'Jews' and 'Judaism' embrace a state and government that professes to be unequivocally 'secular' and therefore devoid of any pretense to compliance with the Hebrew scriptures.

You've raised your own questions as to the relevance of these matters to the Charlie Hebdo topic, yet you don't seem to mind dropping the occasional propaganda nugget suggesting that 'Jews, Judaism and Zionism' are all part of the same system, when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

If you don't want your presuppositions on this matter tested via rigorous analysis and debate in this thread, then I suggest you refrain from further suggesting that there is little or no differentiation between 'Jews, Judaism' and 'Zionism' without fact-based substantiation.
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  #1309  
Old 18.01.2015, 21:46
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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admitting that Hamyd Mourad's accusation was media-driven and otherwise unofficial...?
Wording is important. Officials, police etc. did talked publicly about him and his name was public. But as long as he is not "mis en examen", he is not accused legally of anything. Of course, I do understand that it looks like an indirect accusation when the police wants to see somebody because of a massacre, but the legal situation was that of a witness, not suspected. I've had French TV on for a whole week now, I can't say more.

Otherwise, I am sorry for my annoyed tone, it is not against you, it is the amount of non-sense I've heard about Charlie Hebdo in Germany, Switzerland and the English media via EF that gets on my nerves and it does get on me a little. Sorry for that.
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Old 18.01.2015, 22:13
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Kindly explain
We need to name and differentiate between an ideology, a religion and people to sort this issue out and be clear on what we are talking about, and what we are and are not up against.
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  #1311  
Old 19.01.2015, 00:15
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

According to an Egyptian friend this is the retired Grand Mufti of Egypt claiming Queen Elizabeth is descended from Muhammed
As I do not speak the language he could be saying anything

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXu5...ature=youtu.be
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  #1312  
Old 19.01.2015, 01:19
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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According to an Egyptian friend this is the retired Grand Mufti of Egypt claiming Queen Elizabeth is descended from Muhammed
As I do not speak the language he could be saying anything

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXu5...ature=youtu.be
He is not saying anything new, it's a fact according to genealogists.
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Old 19.01.2015, 01:35
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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He is not saying anything new, it's a fact according to genealogists.
After 700 generations mathematically every human being alive today could be a descendant of Muhammed

Populations geographically close are likely to have even more ancestors in common. But somehow I don't see peace breaking out between Israel and the PA due to having common ancestors.

Nice to know but irrelevant, unless one is a religious leader of course.
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Old 19.01.2015, 04:36
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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According to an Egyptian friend this is the retired Grand Mufti of Egypt claiming Queen Elizabeth is descended from Muhammed
As I do not speak the language he could be saying anything

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXu5...ature=youtu.be

Many people say that the Sachsen-Koburg-Gotha Dynasty is related the to the Hashemites and of course the Koreish
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Old 19.01.2015, 10:25
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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He is not saying anything new, it's a fact according to genealogists.
Thanks,

let us make her the Caliph then; that should sort out a few problems
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  #1316  
Old 19.01.2015, 13:00
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

The Charlie Hebdo massacre was initially described as a gift to the Front National and Right wing politics in general. Interesting perspective then from old man Le Pen.

Paris attacks: Jean-Marie Le Pen says French terror attacks were work of Western intelligence


Front National founder gives credence to conspiracy theories in an interview with virulently anti-western Russian newspaper

John Lichfield
The Independent

The Charlie Hebdo massacre may have been the work of an “intelligence agency”, working with the connivance of French authorities, according to Jean-Marie Le Pen, founder of the far right Front National.

In an interview with a virulently anti-Western Russian newspaper, Mr Le Pen, 86, gave credence to conspiracy theories circulating on the internet suggesting that the attack was the work of American or Israeli agents seeking to foment a civil war between Islam and the West.

His comments – only partially retracted in an interview with the French newspaper Le Monde today – provoked outrage amongst French politicians. They will also infuriate Marine Le Pen, his daughter, and successor as leader of the FN, who has been trying to distance the party from her father’s extreme and provocative remarks.

Mr Le Pen stood down as FN leader three years ago but remains President-for-life. He made the comments in an interview with Komsomolskaïa Pravda , a newspaper which had already blamed the United States for the terrorist mayhem in France.

“The shooting at Charlie Hebdo resembles a secret service operation but we have no proof of that,” the newspaper quoted Mr Le Pen as saying. “I don’t think it was organised by the French authorities but they permitted this crime to be committed. That, for the moment, is just a supposition.”

To justify his comments, Mr Le Pen pointed to the fact that one of the Kouachi brothers, who carried out the Charlie Hebdo massacre, left his identity card in a crashed getaway car. He compared this to the “miraculous fact” – beloved by conspiracy theorists – that one of the passports of the 9/11 hijackers was found on the ground in New York after two planes collided with the twin towers of the World Trade Centre in 2001.

Mr Le Pen made two other provocative remarks in the interview. He said that the 1,500,000 who marched “against hatred” in Paris last Sunday were not “Charlies” but “Charlie Chaplins” (ie clowns). He also said that there were 15,000,00 to 20,000,000 Muslims in France – three or four times the generally accepted figures of 5,000,000 people who are practising Muslims or have Muslim backgrounds.

In an interview with Le Monde today, Mr Le Pen repeated his suspicions about the identity card but said he “could not recall” talking about “secret services” to the Russian newspaper.

Mr Le Pen’s original quoted remarks run directly counter to the official line of his daughter and his party. They have suggested that the attacks on Charlie Hebdo and a Jewish supermarket are the final proof that France faces an “enemy within”, which has been created by immigration and open EU borders.

Conspiracy theories of the kind espoused by the elder Le Pen sprang up on the internet within hours of the Charlie Hebdo attacks. They have been repeated in recent days by some – not all - young Muslims in France, torn between identifying with the Kouachi brothers and insisting that they were stooges of the French authorities, Washington and Israel.

The French “pope of conspiracy theories”, Thierry Meyssan, now based in Damascus, insisted that the Charlie Hebdo massacres were “ordered by US neo-cons and liberal hawks”. An American conspiracy site, McLatchy, has claimed that the Kouachi brothers were working for French intelligence.

Source
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Old 19.01.2015, 13:15
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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The Charlie Hebdo massacre was initially described as a gift to the Front National and Right wing politics in general. Interesting perspective then from old man Le Pen.
You would have thought the attacks were a godsend for the FN. Now why is he frittering away the uplift with this sort of nonsense?
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Old 20.01.2015, 07:13
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You would have thought the attacks were a godsend for the FN. Now why is he frittering away the uplift with this sort of nonsense?

Because MARINE LEPEN asked Dad to do so. She a while ago started to establish a kind of RightWing Rainbow Coalition. Many in Switzerland actually share his opinion
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  #1319  
Old 21.01.2015, 13:47
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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ISIS threat video from yesterday, "with God’s help, we will arrive in Europe. We will expand across all of Europe, to France, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland and also the USA"

I don't know exactly what we did, but I suppose it is not driven by any point of cause or reason anyway. Maybe someone stared at one of them too long while they were here?
Yeah saw the video. First things I thought was that the face looked familiar. Then I remembered why

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Old 21.01.2015, 15:25
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Yeah saw the video. First things I thought was that the face looked familiar. Then I remembered why

Perhaps he meant touring with his band
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