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  #1421  
Old 10.03.2015, 22:10
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Yup. You've never wondered why a conservative English Christian finds the constant insults hurled at Muslims and the things they consider holy utterly tiresome? This year it's them and theirs - maybe next year it'll be me and mine.

Shooting people for being obnoxious is out of order, but that doesn't mean the rest of us should suddenly decide that being obnoxious was actually a good thing after all.
Yup.
There's only space for so many Charlie Hebdos on this planet.

That said, given all what we know about the people who died, I believe some of them would probably wear this "award" as a "badge of honor" and make it a front-page article.
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  #1422  
Old 10.03.2015, 22:27
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Yup. You've never wondered why a conservative English Christian finds the constant insults hurled at Muslims and the things they consider holy utterly tiresome? This year it's them and theirs - maybe next year it'll be me and mine.

Shooting people for being obnoxious is out of order, but that doesn't mean the rest of us should suddenly decide that being obnoxious was actually a good thing after all.
Many conservative English Christians find the Radical Islam worse than tiresome, and don't make ideological excuses for cowardice.

As for been obnoxious, I believe these guys were called that and worse, but they stood up for their beliefs:

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  #1423  
Old 10.03.2015, 22:29
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

I've seen some horrible treatment and verbal abuse of blacks, jews, gypsies, eastern europeans, christians, homosexuals, chinese, Indians, Americans, whites, women, etc. Not just verbal abuse, but actual physical abuse. I don't think I've seen the same level of abuse directed towards Muslims. For the most part, Muslims are not even distinguishable from other people. I only hear about it from their reactions. Are Muslims truly more abused than anyone else?
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  #1424  
Old 10.03.2015, 22:29
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Many conservative English Christians find the Radical Islam worse than tiresome, and don't make ideological excuses for cowardice.

As for been obnoxious, I believe these guys were called that and worse, but they stood up for their beliefs:

Have you ever actually watched the Life of Brian?
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  #1425  
Old 10.03.2015, 22:30
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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I've seen some horrible treatment and verbal abuse of blacks, jews, gypsies, eastern europeans, christians, homosexuals, chinese, Indians, Americans, whites, women, etc. Not just verbal abuse, but actual physical abuse. I don't think I've seen the same level of abuse directed towards Muslims. For the most part, Muslims are not even distinguishable from other people. I only hear about it from their reactions. Are Muslims truly more abused than anyone else?
Phos, you don't even know any Muslims.
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  #1426  
Old 10.03.2015, 22:32
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Phos, you don't even know any Muslims.
But I do. And I've never seen them experience the kinds of abuses I've seen other groups have. And I've seen some horrible things happen to people just for being black,white, or gay.
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  #1427  
Old 10.03.2015, 22:33
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Have you ever actually watched the Life of Brian?
watched it ? I worshipped it. splitter !
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  #1428  
Old 10.03.2015, 22:35
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

despite the sacriligious visuals of that scene, "always looking on the bright side of life" is actually theologically sound.
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  #1429  
Old 10.03.2015, 23:15
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Islamic Human rights commission voted Charlie Hebdo as "Islamophobe of the year 2014".

Humor was feared by tyrants.
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Correction, voting was performed by members of the public.
I can't believe Maajid Nawaz and Home Secretary Theresa May were voted UK Islamophobes of the Year. Where did they hold this vote? Mosul? Its a bit juvenile.

This Islamophobe label has now been abused beyond anything useful. Its a disservice to Muslims who might encounter real abuse out of real hate, and need real help.
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  #1430  
Old 11.03.2015, 00:05
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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The best way to understand Charlie Hebdo is to consider them as activists for atheism. No wonder any given religion consider the newspaper anti-them. But being ANTIsomething does not mean somethingPHOBE. I don't expect the something-people to understand.

To say they are activists is a bizarre and extreme conclusion. It may apply in some personal cases but not in others. And I dare say that the NON-Atheists are the majority.
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  #1431  
Old 11.03.2015, 00:10
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Many conservative English Christians find the Radical Islam worse than tiresome, and don't make ideological excuses for cowardice.

As for been obnoxious, I believe these guys were called that and worse, but they stood up for their beliefs:


ideological excuses for cowardice ? You mean that people who apply common sense are cowards ? And that radical conservatives are perfect ?


And the Video is perfect nonsense. People who got crucified had at least their arms NAILED to the cross and often also their legs and suffered unbelievable pains, at least until losing consciousness and very slowly dying
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  #1432  
Old 11.03.2015, 00:26
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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To say they are activists is a bizarre and extreme conclusion. It may apply in some personal cases but not in others. And I dare say that the NON-Atheists are the majority.
I thought they were some sort of satirists....silly me.
They ridiculed Christianity more than any other religion, but for some reason we don't want to acknowledge this. Strange. I can only guess some people covered their eyes when looking through their cartoons.
Had they focused on only one, it would have seemed very suspicious indeed.
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  #1433  
Old 11.03.2015, 01:31
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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And I dare say that the NON-Atheists are the majority.
In Charlie Hebdo, nobody is pro-religion. You must be talking about another majority somewhere else. I used the word activists as a pedagogical short-cut because not one line of this paper (I've been reading it for years, remember?) ever defended religions. It's a secular paper against any influence of religion in public, social and political life.
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  #1434  
Old 11.03.2015, 01:59
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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In Charlie Hebdo, nobody is pro-religion.
Well, in France nobody who considers themselves intellectual is pro religion. So placing this in context, your above statement is not that surprising really.

In France it would be virtual sacrilege to even suggest religion should play a greater role in the public arena. So in that respect Charlie Hebdo was really just towing a mainstream political and establishment position. Maybe its style and tone were rebellious, but the core message less so.

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You must be talking about another majority somewhere else. I used the word activists as a pedagogical short-cut because not one line of this paper (I've been reading it for years, remember?) ever defended religions. It's a secular paper against any influence of religion in public, social and political life.
I don't think its the job of satire to be for anything or even against anything. Good satire ridicules and rubs salt in wounds and indeed asks questions - but should leave it to others to thrash out coherent and complete answers.
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  #1435  
Old 11.03.2015, 02:04
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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In Charlie Hebdo, nobody is pro-religion. You must be talking about another majority somewhere else. I used the word activists as a pedagogical short-cut because not one line of this paper (I've been reading it for years, remember?) ever defended religions. It's a secular paper against any influence of religion in public, social and political life.

I did NOT say PRO-RELIGION, I said NOT Atheist. That is a difference.


To be secularist and against influence of religion does NOT mean that you are an atheist. And it is not the Job of publications to defend relîgion


Houari Boumedičnne, originally Makhmoud Barkharouba, became, after studies in the Zitouna in Tunis and the Azhar in Cairo, an Imam, but then first Defence Minister and then in 1965 President of Algeria. He never was an atheist, but clearly a secularist
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  #1436  
Old 12.03.2015, 19:44
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Well, in France nobody who considers themselves intellectual is pro religion.
France is a place where there are several ways of being anti-religion.

Saying that intellectuals reject religion by definition means that you consider that there is no intellectual in the right wing parties. I don't mind, but they don't agree with you.

If religion was absent behind the scene, incl. intellectuals and politics, there wouldn't be people like at Charlie Hebdo who go a step further than secularity: they oppose all kind of religious founded thinking, not only the public secular religious presence that is strongly represented in French society.

Religion is everywhere in France, incl. intellectuals, but one doesn't see it. Charlie Hebdo doesn't agree with religion being hidden, they write it off totally. Intellectuals rarely go that far, the secular view is usually sufficient even in left wings parties.
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  #1437  
Old 28.04.2015, 21:25
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Six novelists boycott PEN gala dinner honoring Charlie Hebdo. Saying:

"All this is complicated by PEN’s seeming blindness to the cultural arrogance of the French nation, which does not recognize its moral obligation to a large and disempowered segment of their population.”
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  #1438  
Old 28.04.2015, 21:58
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Six novelists boycott PEN gala dinner honoring Charlie Hebdo. Saying:

"All this is complicated by PEN’s seeming blindness to the cultural arrogance of the French nation, which does not recognize its moral obligation to a large and disempowered segment of their population.”
Little known novelists desperate for publicity.

Also from the link "“If PEN as a free speech organization can’t defend and celebrate people who have been murdered for drawing pictures, then frankly the organization is not worth the name,” Mr. Rushdie (former PEN president) said. “What I would say to both Peter and Michael and the others is, I hope nobody ever comes after them.”"
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  #1439  
Old 28.04.2015, 22:16
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

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Saying that intellectuals reject religion by definition means that you consider that there is no intellectual in the right wing parties. I don't mind, but they don't agree with you.
I can't spontaneously think of any right-wing French intellectual, and I think the typical modern French intellectual is both anti-religion and if not explicitly left-wing, at least nominally anti-right-wing.

Maybe there are some right-wing guys who can give it back to the left-wing guys in TV debates and the like. And a good many have gone to the Grandes Ecoles and all that. But that alone doesn't make them proper intellectuals in the intellectual sense of the word if you follow what I mean. There's more to being intellectual than just being smart.
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  #1440  
Old 29.04.2015, 21:45
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings

Banning any religion influence from any form of public life is an anti freedom, totalitarian ideology in its own right and we all know how it ended.
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