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  #1561  
Old 29.10.2020, 22:13
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

There were two more "incidents" in France today:
https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-fr...ignon-20201029

https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-fr...-lyon-20201029
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  #1562  
Old 29.10.2020, 23:11
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

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The situation in France has always been historically different. Partly because of the principle of 'Laïcité/secularity' which followed the Revolution, partly because of the very recent (to me) war of Algeria. Both have resulted in North African Muslims in France, even now 2nd, 3rd or evern 4th generation Muslims- even those who do not wear any traditional clothes, etc- encountering daily discrimination, insults, rejection, of every kind- day in, day out, and massive unemployment.



Building huge resentment and making some young people, especially young men- very easy to target by extremist groups.

.
Charlie Hebdo and the French in general didn't spare anyone.

It's their style. I don't think people are so weak that they can't take some mocking. Discrimination, on the other hand, it is something else and lots of people have experienced it, in one form or another. You must know it, it's not only religion or race.

It is what it is, the only thing to advance and dispel prejudices is to work harder and live your life as you see fit, but in accordance with the laws. Asking the French not to be French, asking cartoonists not to do those caricatures anymore, comedians not to joke anymore, it is a waste of time IMHO.
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  #1563  
Old 30.10.2020, 00:51
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

...is all about: direct proportional to education...
...more education=less terrorism...
...less education=more terrorism...
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  #1564  
Old 30.10.2020, 01:18
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

It was quite an eventful day

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Just two hours after the Nice attack, police in Avignon shot and killed a man with a firearm who had assaulted a merchant of North African descent. Officials said the man was shot after refusing to drop his weapon and ignoring a warning shot. Avignon prosecutor Philippe Guemas said the man belonged to extreme-right group Generation Identity and appeared to be “psychologically unstable”.

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I'm just a little puzzled as to why this wasn't also being labelled a terrorist incident?
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  #1565  
Old 30.10.2020, 08:27
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

Of course the attacker was a migrant who arrived by boat just days ago.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54742403
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  #1566  
Old 30.10.2020, 08:43
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

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I'm just a little puzzled as to why this wasn't also being labelled a terrorist incident?
The person was probably such a nutter that he couldn't be taken serious as a terrorist. Probably the worst thing that could happen to a terrorist.
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  #1567  
Old 30.10.2020, 09:35
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

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I'm just a little puzzled as to why this wasn't also being labelled a terrorist incident?
We still have a psychological problem calling white men on a shooting rampage terrorists. A terrorists has to be someone shouting allahu akbar and ideally coming from a distant place. It just fits so nicely into the stereotype.

(un)related - i have two boys who fight constantly. the only way to have peace and quiet in the house is to physically separate them so they play in different room. getting into the details of who was right in this fight, who was wrong last time, etc is a losing game.
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  #1568  
Old 30.10.2020, 09:37
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

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...is all about: direct proportional to education...
...more education=less terrorism...
...less education=more terrorism...
No it's not "all about" that and if you think so then you are a tad simplistic with how you view things. A few examples of articles discussing this:

2002: https://www.nber.org/digest/sep02/po...ause-terrorism

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Members of Hezbollah's militant wing who were killed in action in the 1980s and early 1990s were at least as likely to come from economically advantaged families and have a relatively high level of education as they were to come from impoverished families without educational opportunities.
2011: https://www.jstor.org/stable/23018785?seq=1

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Many studies of the social backgrounds of terrorists have found that they are wealthier and better educated than the population from which they are drawn.
2019: https://www.hindustantimes.com/analy...sSG6pQ3bM.html

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Of late, there appears to be a sense of bewilderment in the aftermath of terrorist attacks that the perpetrators were “rich and educated”. It appears incredulous that socially and economically emancipated individuals would wilfully embark on suicide missions.
So, you may want to revise your black and white view on that. Education of course can factor into it, but your statements that it's "all about more education=less terrorism" and "less education=more terrorism." are just flat-out wrong.
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Old 30.10.2020, 09:42
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

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So, you may want to revise your black and white view on that. Education of course can factor into it, but your statements that it's "all about more education=less terrorism" and "less education=more terrorism." are just flat-out wrong.
Of course it's flat out wrong. Bin Laden came from one of the wealthiest/most connected/most educated families in Saudi Arabia. Most of the 9/11 terrorists came from privileged backgrounds and studied in Europe, the Muslim brotherrhood was founded and is led by educated Doctors, Lawyers, etc.
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  #1570  
Old 30.10.2020, 10:49
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

Meantime Erdogan is having a (calculated) mental breakdown and fuming against Macron, France, against barbaric Europe and Europeans etc etc etc.
Oh dear.

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/politics/ho...rdogan/2022184
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  #1571  
Old 30.10.2020, 11:10
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

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Meantime Erdogan is having a (calculated) mental breakdown and fuming against Macron, France, against barbaric Europe and Europeans etc etc etc.
Oh dear.

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/politics/ho...rdogan/2022184
Standard tactics for populists who are failing on the home front: Find a wicked foreigner to distract the voters.
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Old 30.10.2020, 11:19
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

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Meantime Erdogan is having a (calculated) mental breakdown and fuming against Macron, France, against barbaric Europe and Europeans etc etc etc.
Oh dear.
Absolutely calculated. Erdogan has been slowly trying to position himself as the leader of the Muslim world, a sort of a new Caliph and the best way to unite is the oldest way to unite: find a common enemy. When there's no enemy, create one!

He plays really well with the deep fears and stereotypes we have in Europe about Islam. He's positioning it in our minds as an aggressive and intolerant religion while at the same time he's positioning Europe in the minds of Muslims as a intolerant place that is now slowly giving birth to a sort of a new Crusade.

And that's exactly the problem I was referring to earlier - you don't deal with this with even more tolerance, with even more openness. This is being perceived as weakness and the way to deal with it is to start controlling the information flow. The French idea of having all imams trained in France, speaking French and controlling what is being said in the mosques is the absolutely right idea.

I slightly disagree with FrankZappa that this is driven by internal politics. Yes, they certainly play a role and it's something he's carefully managing, but his ambition is wider than the borders of Turkey.
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  #1573  
Old 30.10.2020, 11:31
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

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Of course the attacker was a migrant who arrived by boat just days ago.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54742403
Well, this is gasoline to the fire.

I'm also curious about what will happen with the Red Cross legal immunity. They are exempt from lots of stuff to operate. It makes sense, otherwise they cannot work, but they will be subject on intense scrutiny in the following days.
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  #1574  
Old 30.10.2020, 13:00
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

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I slightly disagree with FrankZappa that this is driven by internal politics. Yes, they certainly play a role and it's something he's carefully managing, but his ambition is wider than the borders of Turkey.
I agree with FZ. But I also think he's got a lot of ambitions beyond Turkey's borders. Might even want to be on a par with Putin...

Probably half of the voters would agree with him, half of them would see right through his strategy (I might be optimistic here). But he's sending a wrong signal, overall.

Last edited by greenmount; 30.10.2020 at 13:16.
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  #1575  
Old 30.10.2020, 13:43
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

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The person was probably such a nutter that he couldn't be taken serious as a terrorist. Probably the worst thing that could happen to a terrorist.
I was perhaps being a little facetious, when its a muslim he could be on day release from a psychiatric ward and any act he commits would be defined as terrorism, but when its someone else then its a mental health issue. In the Avignon case he was armed, is a member of a extreme right wing political group so that's already two of the key definers of a terrorist.
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  #1576  
Old 30.10.2020, 13:54
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

Salvini must be feeling pretty vindicated right now - yet they're still trying to prosecute him for trying to stop terrorists like this from illegally migrating to Europe!
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Old 30.10.2020, 17:30
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

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...is all about: direct proportional to education...
...more education=less terrorism...
...less education=more terrorism...
Not sure if serious.
9/11 Suicide bombers were engineers and PhDs, some graduated top of their class from German University as attested by his former German professor.
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  #1578  
Old 31.10.2020, 00:35
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

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No it's not "all about" that and if you think so then you are a tad simplistic with how you view things. A few examples of articles discussing this:

2002: https://www.nber.org/digest/sep02/po...ause-terrorism



2011: https://www.jstor.org/stable/23018785?seq=1



2019: https://www.hindustantimes.com/analy...sSG6pQ3bM.html



So, you may want to revise your black and white view on that. Education of course can factor into it, but your statements that it's "all about more education=less terrorism" and "less education=more terrorism." are just flat-out wrong.
...education is not just schooling...
...from the country I am originate the staple of education is respect for the life of others...
...we've been 600 years under Muslim occupation we now what is Muslim terrorism...
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  #1579  
Old 03.11.2020, 10:29
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

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We still have a psychological problem calling white men on a shooting rampage terrorists. A terrorists has to be someone shouting allahu akbar and ideally coming from a distant place. It just fits so nicely into the stereotype.
I wonder how many attacks there would be in Europe if there were completely no anti-terrorisme efforts of the police and other security forces?
Do you think it would be more-or-less like it is now?
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Old 03.11.2020, 10:47
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Re: France: Charlie Hebdo Office shootings [and further terrorist attacks]

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...education is not just schooling...
...from the country I am originate the staple of education is respect for the life of others...
...we've been 600 years under Muslim occupation we now what is Muslim terrorism...
Yes.

Truly educated does not mean possession of a diploma. Learning is not simply the acquisition of knowledge.
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