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crazygringo 02.03.2015 11:51

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 2350140)
Look, poverty is not the driver of terrorism.

if you look closely at the history of man, you will discover that not a single revolution was ever driven by poverty, but rather by a group of disenfranchised elite who were able to use the poverty of others as a leverage point. I think you will also discover, however, that every single one of those revolutions was fought in the trenches by the poor.

every single sovereign regime based upon Islam uses the religion as a tool, exactly the same as every single terrorist organization based upon Islam. what never changes, however, is the demographic of the people actually fighting and dying - for every "Jihadi John" that we in the west see on the news, there are tens of thousands of impoverished ordinary Muslims doing the actual fighting and dying.

Castro 02.03.2015 12:05

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 2349551)
Oh, Jihadi John was a beautiful and gentle boy, compelled to behead by MI5, by their questioning. Poor victim. And don't ask too many direct questions of others either, because it is Islamophobic, so Sky News finds out:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10073785.html

Poor guy in interview experienced cognitive dissonance, not knowing whether he was speaking to Western media, or to fellow Muslims supportive of Jihad.

I don't think a job can reform these guys, folks. They aren't naive 6 year olds. They make up their own minds for what they do with their own lives.

Sky News = ever so slightly less stupid stablemate of Fox News, and Kay Burley is well known for her aggressive interviewing style, lack of understanding and all round bias.

Anyway I watched the interview and I think the Interviewee was perfectly within his rights to call it an Islamaphobic question. It would be like asking a random black person what they thought about drugs, gansta rap and the subjugation of women or a white person whether or not they condemn paedophile Gary Glitter. Its a gutter rhetorical tool which Kay Burley has obviously mastered.

crazygringo 02.03.2015 12:33

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2350780)
It would be like asking a random black person what they thought about drugs, gansta rap and the subjugation of women or a white person whether or not they condemn paedophile Gary Glitter.

no, it wouldn't be like that at all. comparing people who share a common voluntary system of belief to people who share a common genetic trait is intellectually dishonest and dangerous.

I think the people who drank the Kool-Aid with Jim Jones, for example, were idiots. does this mean I have a "phobia"?

:confused:

Guest 02.03.2015 13:07

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2350780)
Anyway I watched the interview and I think the Interviewee was perfectly within his rights to call it an Islamaphobic question. It would be like asking a random black person what they thought about drugs, gansta rap and the subjugation of women or a white person whether or not they condemn paedophile Gary Glitter. Its a gutter rhetorical tool which Kay Burley has obviously mastered.

That is not Islamophobia, that is investigative journalism. Cage may very well have crossed the line between a "human rights organization" to a pro-terrorist activist group. I think it was fair for Kay Burley to ask about CAGE's position in regards to terrorism as a matter of national security.

What is interesting is that this spokesman couldn't explicitly condemn the beheadings outrigh, rather alluded to foreign policy as the trigger, and Jihadi John as a victim of Islamophobia in security services.

So asking questions can be Islamophobic?


Quote:

Perhaps YOU would do me the service of googling and providing evidence for claims YOU made. I think that's how it's meant to work.
I think you only need to google Terrorism and Poverty and find plenty of papers on the topic. You'll find plenty of analysis that Islamic terrorist attacks have been conducted by middle to upper class educated men. It contradicts Obama's narrative that this is a poverty/jobs issue. There are many more impoverished populations elsewhere that do not commit terrorism. Perhaps the liberal utopianists who promise these false hopes might unconciously be trying to encourage them to do so. Also note the number of Hamas millionaires in Gaza.

Castro 02.03.2015 13:27

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crazygringo (Post 2350798)
no, it wouldn't be like that at all. comparing people who share a common voluntary system of belief to people who share a common genetic trait is intellectually dishonest and dangerous.

Errr not quite, the overwhelming majority of Muslims are born into the faith with Muslim names, cultural heritage and identities. Being a Fireman is voluntary, but not being a Muslim for the largest part. Its no simple matter to excommunicate from all that, and neither should you feel compelled to given that its only a tiny minority who have hijacked the faith.

Anyway perhaps Kay Burley was playing a slightly more intelligent game given that the interviewee (Cerie Bullivant) is an Irish covert. So maybe in her twisted mind she thinks that most converts to Islam are up to no good :rolleyes:

Guest 02.03.2015 13:46

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Yea, you can only have one finger on one trigger for one shooting. A few days before this interview was a poll that showed 27% of British Muslim sympathized with the Charlie Hebdo shooting. The BBC called that "a few", the Guardian called it a "small minority", but in actual numbers, that is around 750,000. About 10%, or 250,000, said Charlie Hebdo got what it deserved. Even Baroness Warsi called it "worrying". In this discourse, and in full disclosure, it was a good question for Kay Burley to ask.

Castro 02.03.2015 13:56

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 2350832)
Yea, you can only have one finger on one trigger for one shooting. A few days before this interview was a poll that showed 27% of British Muslim sympathized with the Charlie Hebdo shooting. The BBC called that "a few", the Guardian called it a "small minority", but in actual numbers, that is around 750,000. About 10%, or 250,000, said Charlie Hebdo got what it deserved. Even Baroness Warsi called it "worrying". In this discourse, and in full disclosure, it was a good question for Kay Burley to ask.

Indeed it is worrying, however context is key.

crazygringo 02.03.2015 14:04

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2350820)
Errr not quite, the overwhelming majority of Muslims are born into the faith with Muslim names, cultural heritage and identities. Being a Fireman is voluntary, but not being a Muslim for the largest part. Its no simple matter to excommunicate from all that, and neither should you feel compelled to given that its only a tiny minority who have hijacked the faith.

so, if somebody can be born into a system of belief, what would you do with somebody who is born into a belief in terrorism and anti-Semitism? what about somebody who is born into a belief in the inferiority of persons of color? do you think giving that person a job and access to free mental health care can "rehabilitate" them"? and why should someone feel compelled to excommunicate themselves from those belief systems? what do you do with someone born into a family of firefighters, isn't becoming a firefighter just as involuntary for them as being a Muslim?

:confused:

I honestly have no kryptonite for any reasoning based upon the rejection of basic notions of human intelligence and free will. once you start suggesting that people do not have the free will to choose their system of belief, you force yourself into a position of having to make qualitative judgments about which systems of belief are "good" and which are "bad", i.e. which systems of belief people should be compelled to excommunicate themselves from and which they should not, which is more or less exactly where the whole problem starts.

Guest 02.03.2015 14:09

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 2350811)
I think you only need to google Terrorism and Poverty and find plenty of papers on the topic.

You seem to be failing to grasp the basics of putting forward an evidence based argument, as you've singularly failed to do until now.

YOU are very welcome to google them and bring them to us as evidence, do your own bloody work.

The fact you haven't been able to suggests to me that there isn't as much accurate, peer reviewed as you'd have us believe.

Oh and Kay Burley is an awful excuse for a human, base, lowest common denominator demagogue shite is all that spews forth from her. I'm surprised she hasn't been signed up by Fox yet.

Guest 02.03.2015 14:13

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2350845)
Indeed it is worrying, however context is key.

Oh, that is positive news.

It goes to prove that you only need to change words around, and control people's vocabularies, and the most difficult problems magically disappear. It will work, won't it? Promise? Say Yes it will work!

MidfieldGeneral 02.03.2015 14:24

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
yep Kay Burley is a thick, deluded, nasty piece of work

Guest 02.03.2015 15:24

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Honestly, I think the difficulty here is how Muslims can condemn actions of terrorists and beheaders without negating and contradicting some basic tenets of Islam. I am convinced they would like to condemn it, and that they hate it, but doing so puts them in a very awkward position. Maybe even a painful position. This needs to be acknowledged, maybe even empathized with.

But I don't think this is the fault of Kay Burley or anyone who asks, whether ignorantly or not. The vast majority of people have no idea how difficult this conundrum is. But brush stroking kind of separates us needlessly across camps, and causes suspicion, when none of it is of any ill intent.


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