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-   -   Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/226339-muslim-terrorists-get-state-jobs-free-shrinks-if-they-decide-leave-isis.html)

CorsebouTheReturn 22.01.2015 16:10

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2324981)
No it isnt. Its the 'lets understand terrorism for what it is, and stop the cycle spreading and creating a new generation of homegrown terrorists' society.

To all those saying this is a stupid idea, i ask this: Why is it that this war against terror, with our current tactics, seems to be getting worse and worse, instead of better and better, with every terrorist killed?

Is it possible that killing these people does not kill their ideology?


Not only that was a stupid idea, and your answer makes me vomit (virtually).

It's much worse than "understanding terrorism" it's taking an "discriminating" action towards people who have crossed the line.

But yeah, defend those "victims".

They had decades to read books, try to comply with most society rules and to do something with themselves. Instead they chose to go to war to potentially kill some other human beings because they think differently.
I think it's too late for education and that they should be kicked badly.
As for the idiots who are trying to defend them, they deserved the same treatment if not worse for misusing their alleged intelligence.

Well, but we won't agree, so move on.

J2488 22.01.2015 16:22

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsebouTheReturn (Post 2324993)
Not only that was a stupid idea, and your answer makes me vomit (virtually).

It's much worse than "understanding terrorism" it's taking an "discriminating" action towards people who have crossed the line.

But yeah, defend those "victims".

They had decades to read books, try to comply with most society rules and to do something with themselves. Instead they chose to go to war to potentially kill some other human beings because they think differently.
I think it's too late for education and that they should be kicked badly.
As for the idiots who are trying to defend them, they deserved the same treatment if not worse for misusing their alleged intelligence.

Well, but we won't agree, so move on.

And making martyrs of them, so they can inspire a new generation, is of course, not a stupid idea? :rolleyes:

I never called them victims, and don't try to paint it that way.

People with your viewpoint make me laugh. You say you want to fight terrorism, but you cant comprehend, for one minute, that the answer to successfully beating it might not be in killing/imprisoning them.

I'm gonna bold the next bit to emphasize it, in the hope that you actually try to read it properly.

Jail is not the only way to remove somebody's freedom. It is, however, the only way to ensure their exclusion. Exclusion from society is one of the key factors that leads to radicalization in the first place.

If you exclude people, if you show them that they are 'different' and not part of society, they look for something they can be a part of. And guess what, Al Qaeda is hiring.

Do you see the pattern here?

Answer the questions i put above:
'Why is it that this war against terror, with our current tactics, seems to be getting worse and worse, instead of better and better, with every terrorist killed?'

MidfieldGeneral 22.01.2015 16:31

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsebouTheReturn (Post 2324941)
Its the "victimization" society at its best

Please can you explain what this means?

Guest 22.01.2015 16:35

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2325017)
Jail is not the only way to remove somebody's freedom. It is, however, the only way to ensure their exclusion. Exclusion from society is one of the key factors that leads to radicalization in the first place.

If you exclude people, if you show them that they are 'different' and not part of society, they look for something they can be a part of. And guess what, Al Qaeda is hiring.

Do you see the pattern here?

Answer the questions i put above:
'Why is it that this war against terror, with our current tactics, seems to be getting worse and worse, instead of better and better, with every terrorist killed?'

Shall we surrender then?

Once that threshold is passed, it is passed. While you might be addressing those who have not passed it, are you also addressing those who have? Where is justice, in your view?

crazygringo 22.01.2015 16:38

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
the entire notion that somehow an individual becomes a depraved, barbaric murderer solely because someone didn't love them enough is so patently absurd and offensive to logic that I honestly don't know how to rebut it.

idefix 22.01.2015 16:45

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Why don't all of us turn Muslim and start Shariya states everywhere? Problem solved.

Castro 22.01.2015 16:49

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
This may sound like a radical statement, but a terrorist is nothing more than a criminal. And until we stop thinking of them as being some sort of superhuman or alien species that need different rules from every other scumbag criminal, we will never get anywhere.

Guest 22.01.2015 16:54

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2325061)
This may sound like a radical statement, but a terrorist is nothing more than a criminal. And until we stop thinking of them as being some sort of superhuman or alien species that need different rules from every other scumbag criminal, we will never get anywhere.

I agree that a terrorist is merely a criminal, but terrorism is a racket. Now, a racket survives long after its participants. Simply targetting its participants does not eradicate the racket.

We had a similar situation in the US. Organized crime was very difficult to prosecute. So they created the RICO act. It does not need to target a particular crime or criminal, only patterns of organized criminal behavior. I believe there are some parallels here. Europe seems to be struggling with the proper approach, but it needs to keep struggling until it finds one.

These guys are committing conspiracy and treason. But you would need some notion of nationalism to have a notion of treason. Unfortunately, Nationalism is equated with Racist Bigotry in Newspeak.

farmadoc 22.01.2015 17:00

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 2324929)
It simply makes a mockery of people who actually study for years in order to be able to get those jobs and who're required to prove their character and achievements.
It is surreal. :msnshock:

Get which jobs? These are going to be make-work jobs, simply to put people into a structured environment, give them something to live for and hope for and intensively monitor their progress all the while. No one, not a single person in the world, was born to murder. While everyone is responsible for his or her personal actions, surely it's the job of society to do what it can to shift the path of criminals back towards those of stable, law abiding people. And to the poster who said to just kill them, no comment.

TenaciousJ 22.01.2015 17:06

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Toilet scrubber in Guantanamo? :-)

Guest 22.01.2015 17:08

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by farmadoc (Post 2325076)
Get which jobs? These are going to be make-work jobs, simply to put people into a structured environment, give them something to live for and hope for and intensively monitor their progress all the while. No one, not a single person in the world, was born to murder. While everyone is responsible for his or her personal actions, surely it's the job of society to do what it can to shift the path of criminals back towards those of stable, law abiding people. And to the poster who said to just kill them, no comment.

I would agree with this for someone only involved with property damage. But for someone who might have slaughtered innocent people, this seems to pervert the course of justice. I thinking bringing such a person to full rehabilitation also implies bringing them to full recognition that their acts require the full course of justice.

amogles 22.01.2015 17:12

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by farmadoc (Post 2325076)
Get which jobs? These are going to be make-work jobs, simply to put people into a structured environment, give them something to live for and hope for and intensively monitor their progress all the while. No one, not a single person in the world, was born to murder. While everyone is responsible for his or her personal actions, surely it's the job of society to do what it can to shift the path of criminals back towards those of stable, law abiding people. And to the poster who said to just kill them, no comment.

I think as long as you have well-meaning and basically honest poeople trying to get into those jobs, and you are instead offering them to extremists who mumble that they're sorry, you are creating wrong and dangerous incentives.

If on the other hand these are jobs that genuinely nobody wants, then it's more a penitentiary labour scheme than helping them into government jobs.

Medea Fleecestealer 22.01.2015 17:12

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2325017)
Jail is not the only way to remove somebody's freedom. It is, however, the only way to ensure their exclusion. Exclusion from society is one of the key factors that leads to radicalization in the first place.

So most of these people have already been excluded from their societies, is that it? After all, they've become radicalised so this must be the case.

I'm sure many people in the world feel excluded from their societies, but they don't go out and kill others because of it.

I'm with Castro. These people are simply criminals and should be treated as such.

MidfieldGeneral 22.01.2015 17:13

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 2325095)
So most of these people have already been excluded from their societies, is that it? After all, they've become radicalised so this must be the case.

I'm sure many people in the world feel excluded from their societies, but they don't go out and kill others because of it.

I'm with Castro. These people are simply criminals and should be treated as such.

do you believe in the rehabilitation of criminals?

farmadoc 22.01.2015 17:22

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2325061)
This may sound like a radical statement, but a terrorist is nothing more than a criminal. And until we stop thinking of them as being some sort of superhuman or alien species that need different rules from every other scumbag criminal, we will never get anywhere.

They are a very specific sort of criminal which means they post a very specific problem, have a very specific cause and might have a very specific solution. In other words, rehabilitation might be a very easy fix. Typically the cause is social exclusion, lack of integration, lack of pride. Jail would only reinforce these but a job could easily turn it all around.

Medea Fleecestealer 22.01.2015 17:51

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MidfieldGeneral (Post 2325098)
do you believe in the rehabilitation of criminals?

I think it can work in some cases; evidently Texas has been doing quite well at it.

http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/articl...rm-5256894.php

But let's not forget that we are talking about murderers here, not someone convicted of petty theft. These people are either going out to fight and kill people or are going to support them, thereby aiding their murderous intentions. Murder means life in jail in my book (if they can't be executed) so rehabilitation is irrelevant.

MidfieldGeneral 22.01.2015 18:01

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Thanks, in the specific case quoted in that article, was he a murderer? I can't understand the language of the newspaper

Medea Fleecestealer 22.01.2015 18:16

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MidfieldGeneral (Post 2325143)
Thanks, in the specific case quoted in that article, was he a murderer? I can't understand the language of the newspaper

What specific case? :confused:

MidfieldGeneral 22.01.2015 18:18

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
In the first post

Medea Fleecestealer 22.01.2015 18:30

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
No idea as I don't know Swedish either. But if he/she is a member of ISIS most likely they are or at least approve of others who do it for ISIS.


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