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-   -   Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/226339-muslim-terrorists-get-state-jobs-free-shrinks-if-they-decide-leave-isis.html)

Castro 23.01.2015 10:59

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by idefix (Post 2325612)
I don't have a problem with people of any religion, color etc to be part of my society. I have a problem with brainwashed wits that kill innocent people that did absolutely nothing to them or anybody. Imagine one morning you arrive at work, just like any other day, boom, you are killed. You have a family, all your life in front of you? Why should we let such things happen?

The crime is called murder and we have laws to punish murderers. British law was good enough to deal with decades of IRA terrorism, and absolutely nothing has changed. By creating a parallel legal system with special terms and the suspension of basic rights you are inviting abuse of the system. I trust governments about as much as I would trust an email from a Nigerian Prince.

farmadoc 23.01.2015 11:00

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 2325613)
Distorting what has been said here, much? :rolleyes:

No, you said you wanted to execute returnees. And 5 year old child soldiers.

greenmount 23.01.2015 11:02

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by farmadoc (Post 2325622)
No, you said you wanted to execute returnees. A 5 year old child soldiers.


No, I didn't. Stop lying. (probably other poster?)

Really, if you want this discussion to continue and make people see your point, accusing them of things they didn't do it's not quite the right method. In fact, you might achieve the opposite.

I do believe in rehabilitation in general, and talking about the people who are the subject of this thread and NOT about the hypothetical 5 y.o. you conveniently brought up into discussion, but not in double standards. If they are guilty of murder, rape, or anything else they should be brought to justice, then we talk about rehabilitation, if it is possible.

farmadoc 23.01.2015 11:07

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 2325624)
No, I didn't. Stop lying. (probably other poster?)

Really, if you want this discussion to continue and make people see your point, accusing them of things they didn't do it's not quite the right method. In fact, you might achieve the opposite.

You're correct. It was Medea Fleecestealer.

jwlhall 23.01.2015 11:07

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by idefix (Post 2325612)
I don't have a problem with people of any religion, color etc to be part of my society. I have a problem with brainwashed wits that kill innocent people that did absolutely nothing to them or anybody. Imagine one morning you arrive at work, just like any other day, boom, you are killed. You have a family, all your life in front of you? Why should we let such things happen?

It's not extremist to say that we need to get rid of them for good. They are people that mass murder, slaughter etc so they don't deserve for us to pay them jail nor rehabilitate them.

Sounds like a good solution for the likes of Blair, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld etc. too!

Meeyat 23.01.2015 11:07

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
I am not sure since when jihadist = mass murderer.

If a person commited a murder, war crime, or attrocity, that is surely answerable in front of the law.

On the other hand, if a person volunteer to go to fight for a cause, should that person be executed? I mean, by that logic also Christians that volunteer to go to war should be equally penalized. You have to agree that a Christian going to fight there (defending their Christian brothers) is doing the same thing, right?

farmadoc 23.01.2015 11:11

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jwlhall (Post 2325629)
Sounds like a good solution for the likes of Blair, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld etc. too!

You people really have to stop voting for the guys youre demonizing, seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meeyat (Post 2325631)
I am not sure since when jihadist = mass murderer.

If a person commited a murder, war crime, or attrocity, that is surely answerable in front of the law.

On the other hand, if a person volunteer to go to fight for a cause, should that person be executed? I mean, by that logic also Christians that volunteer to go to war should be equally penalized. You have to agree that a Christian going to fight there (defending their Christian brothers) is doing the same thing, right?

One is defence, the other is attack.

Guest 23.01.2015 11:15

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Meeyat (Post 2325631)
On the other hand, if a person volunteer to go to fight for a cause, should that person be executed? I mean, by that logic also Christians that volunteer to go to war should be equally penalized. You have to agree that a Christian going to fight there (defending their Christian brothers) is doing the same thing, right?

Murder is illegal. A professional soldier in war is operating within the boundaries of law. Unless one takes the perspective of negating International and Western laws as invalid, and Jihadist laws as valid, which is really what this ideological war is about. So in short, it depends on which side of the ideological war you are on.

Most Westerners are too ignorant to understand that this conflict is about the principles and values of their societies and cultures against the Jihadists'. Its a war between modernism and anti-modernism. So without getting a good grasp on this understanding, the West has already lost. Fortunately, not all Western intelligentsia have surrendered yet.

greenmount 23.01.2015 11:27

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Meeyat (Post 2325631)
I am not sure since when jihadist = mass murderer.

If a person commited a murder, war crime, or attrocity, that is surely answerable in front of the law.

On the other hand, if a person volunteer to go to fight for a cause, should that person be executed? I mean, by that logic also Christians that volunteer to go to war should be equally penalized. You have to agree that a Christian going to fight there (defending their Christian brothers) is doing the same thing, right?

But is the Islamic State a "cause"?

Linnéa UZH 23.01.2015 11:33

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MidfieldGeneral (Post 2325592)
do you have a link for the first sentence? not the second.

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/24199871

http://www.lematin.ch/suisse/retrait...story/20968644

It's very hard for the Swiss government to revoke citizenship as a punishment. Most Swiss politicians believe that citizenship isn't a license the federal govt can take away for misbehavior, unless it was acquired by fraud, fake marriage (Scheinehe), giving false information...
Many Swiss cantons (especially VD and GE) have always been reluctant to enforce immigration law and for many years they were naturalizing "à tour de bras".

Despite tougher laws on foreign nationals, we have difficulties deporting aliens who are convicted felons (our prisons are full of incarcerated Georgians, Romanians, Guineans...) and most end of being released instead of being deported.

farmadoc 23.01.2015 11:36

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Linnéa UZH (Post 2325658)
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/24199871

http://www.lematin.ch/suisse/retrait...story/20968644

It's very hard for the Swiss government to revoke citizenship as a punishment. Most Swiss politicians believe that citizenship isn't a license the federal govt can take away for misbehavior, unless it was acquired by fraud, fake marriage (Scheinehe), giving false information...
Many Swiss cantons (especially VD and GE) have always been reluctant to enforce immigration law and for many years they were naturalizing "à tour de bras".

Despite tougher laws on foreign nationals, we have difficulties deporting aliens who are convicted felons (our prisons are full of incarcerated Georgians, Romanians, Guineans...) and most end of being released instead of being deported.


Also, clearly, revocation/deportation only applies in persons with dual citizenship.

Guest 23.01.2015 11:37

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Is there a notion of treason in Switzerland or any other European countries anymore? I know there is in the US. A question is if some of these terrorists commit treason, which may put them in a different category altogether. As open as Western society is, it will not survive without some sense or instinct of self-preservation.

idefix 23.01.2015 11:42

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by farmadoc (Post 2325660)
Also, clearly, revocation/deportation only applies in persons with dual citizenship.

OK, cool.

The people born and bred in CH who joined ISIS to fight in Syria should be deported to the Syrian government for the involvement of terrorist activities on Syrian soil.

We can be nice and let them keep the red book, no problem.

But something tells me that they won't be getting government jobs in Syria... :D

Corbets 23.01.2015 11:44

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 2325613)
Distorting what has been said here, much? :rolleyes:

Hmm. Let's check that, shall we?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 2324913)
Of course, I wouldn't waste the money keeping them in jail for the rest of their lives. Execution is what they deserve. Do unto others and all that. They want to kill people who don't share their beliefs, well that works fine for me. They don't share mine of live and let live so good riddance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsebouTheReturn (Post 2324993)
I think it's too late for education and that they should be kicked badly.
As for the idiots who are trying to defend them, they deserved the same treatment if not worse for misusing their alleged intelligence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BokerTov (Post 2325224)
These are trash, and just like trash, should be disposed of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 2325252)
He knows what a gun is and what it does so no excuse of "oh, he's just a child".

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazygringo (Post 2325423)
despite decades of trying to convince myself otherwise, I remain hopelessly bearish on the concept of "rehabilitation".

And of course, the winner:

Quote:

Originally Posted by idefix (Post 2325563)
A 1 EUR worth of 1 7.62mm bullet in the back of the head is the proper AND ONLY rehabilitation for these terrorists.

Nope, I don't think I've distorted anything at all. Perhaps I've just taken the time to actually read what was written.

(note that the above is taken out of context, in particular BokerTov's quote, but my characterization of the conversation appears to be accurate)

MidfieldGeneral 23.01.2015 11:45

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by idefix (Post 2325667)
OK, cool.

The people born and bred in CH who joined ISIS to fight in Syria should be deported to the Syrian government for the involvement of terrorist activities on Syrian soil.

We can be nice and let them keep the red book, no problem.

But something tells me that they won't be getting government jobs in Syria... :D

what would you do with white Swiss Jihadists with a proper Heimat Ort?

idefix 23.01.2015 11:48

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MidfieldGeneral (Post 2325673)
what would you do with white Swiss Jihadists with a proper Heimat Ort?

Deport them to the Syrian authorities? Why do we even have to discuss it? They are terrorists just like anybody else.

greenmount 23.01.2015 11:50

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 2325638)
Murder is illegal. A professional soldier in war is operating within the boundaries of law. Unless one takes the perspective of negating Western laws as invalid, and Jihadist laws as valid, which is really what the ideological war is about. So in short, it depends on which side of the ideological war you are on.

Most Westerners are too ignorant to understand that this conflict is about the principles of their society and culture against the Jihadists. Its a war between modernism and anti-modernism. So without getting a good grasp on this understanding, the West has already lost. Fortunately, not all Western intelligentsia have surrendered yet.

No, I think most people understand very well what is happening and can make their own opinion. Don't make the mistake to conclude that if it's not happening on EF (and it's not), there aren't serious discussions on this subject. And it's not about extremist measures here or accusing all people who happen to follow the same religion (that would be absurd). Of course there are many useful idiots, true, but I don't think they represent the majority.

amogles 23.01.2015 11:52

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Meeyat (Post 2325631)
On the other hand, if a person volunteer to go to fight for a cause, should that person be executed? I mean, by that logic also Christians that volunteer to go to war should be equally penalized. You have to agree that a Christian going to fight there (defending their Christian brothers) is doing the same thing, right?

Switzerland is especially sensitive to these issues as it has had a messy history with mercenaries and has attempted to draw a clear line under this and prevent it happeneing again. So Swiss citizens (or foreigners settled in Switzerland) going to a foreign war outside the scope of that sanctioned by the government is a clear no-go. This counts for Islamic Jihadists as much as it does for armed "security" companies.

MidfieldGeneral 23.01.2015 11:54

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by idefix (Post 2325679)
Deport them to the Syrian authorities? Why do we even have to discuss it? They are terrorists just like anybody else.

do you think that the Swiss authorities will deport a Swiss National with a Heimat Ort of Chur to Assad's Authorities in Syria because he is a Jihadist?

Castro 23.01.2015 11:55

Re: Muslim terrorists to get state jobs and free shrinks if they decide to leave ISIS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by idefix (Post 2325667)
OK, cool.

The people born and bred in CH who joined ISIS to fight in Syria should be deported to the Syrian government for the involvement of terrorist activities on Syrian soil

Perhaps you should go over and live in Syria since you seem to be such a fan of biblical/Shariah justice. Just to make it very clear to you no European country (or Canada, Australia, S.Africa, New Zeland etc..) will ever extradite a person if there is any chance that they may either be tortured or face capital punishment. It will NEVER happen, so get it out of your head.


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