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Old 16.02.2015, 20:30
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Bali Nine duo - not looking good

For any Aussie ex-pat who even remotely monitors Australian news, the hopes for two Aussie drug smugglers on death row in Indonesia is fading rapidly.

This story has been going since since years, 2007 I think, maybe earlier (I could look it up but I'm too lazy right now).

Apart from the usual death penalty debate, the current discussion raises a lot of questions:

  • Is the determination to carry out the sentences politically motivated?
  • Why should Aussies be treated any differently?
  • Is it fair to have left it so long...these guys have gone through rehabilitation just to be struck down?
I am hoping for a reprieve, but my gut feeling tells me by this time next Monday, it will be all over bar the shouting.
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Old 17.02.2015, 06:14
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

There are 2 Australians on death row, along with a UK grandmother and 7 others. All of them were caught with substantial amounts of drugs. The criminals, for various reasons, seem to be guilty and have had a fair hearing in court. Where is the problem?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...sias-president

The Indonesians don't like drug smugglers, neither do Thais, Malaysians, & Japanese whom all keep the death penalty. Why not avoid these countries if you don't want to be legally killed?

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  • Why should Aussies be treated any differently?
Exactly!
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Old 17.02.2015, 15:19
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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  • Is the determination to carry out the sentences politically motivated?
Nationalities of the six convicts that were executed about three weeks ago:
- brazilian
- dutch
- vietnamese
- from Malawi
- from Nigeria
- indonesian

Are they perhaps prejudiced against australians because they didn't include any at that time?
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Old 17.02.2015, 15:28
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

They should be freed right away, its not there fault, Bali's death sentence for drug smugglers was never publicised, its almost a secret, in fact its probably there parents fault, they are misunderstood

Oh, and the Aussie police grassed on them anyway, a bit odd knowing the penalty they faced if convicted there rather then when they landed in Oz, dontcha think?


They knew the risks (and rewards) they got caught, tough luck
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Old 25.04.2015, 18:22
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

They only have about 3 days left to live, they have been served their execution notices by the Indonesian government. Personally I don't rejoice, nor despair, they took a huge risk, and they will pay the price.
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Old 29.04.2015, 11:23
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

Today, while singing to Bless the Lord O My Soul , eight men without blindfolds were executed. Very sad to see that the rehabilitated are murdered in the name of greed and political ego.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/bali-exe...29-1mvm99.html


Time to redirect the 650 million Aussie dollars to Nepal...?
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Old 29.04.2015, 11:29
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

They had a choice, don't be drug dealers, they took the gamble and lost, my heart bleeds for them.

Its not like drugs ruin peoples lives now is it? or addicts rob and steal (and kill) to fund there habits, and I hear drug dealers are really nice people after all, never heard of any dealer killing anyone, ever.

Funny how they find religion and become nice people when they are caught and face the death penalty.

no loss to humanity.
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Old 29.04.2015, 11:36
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

They did the crime and they knew the punishment for it if caught. Unfortunately for them they got caught .
Do you really think they'd have been 'rehabilitated' if they hadn't been caught and facing the death penalty?
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Old 29.04.2015, 11:39
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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Today, while singing to Bless the Lord O My Soul , eight men without blindfolds were executed. Very sad to see that the rehabilitated are murdered in the name of greed and political ego.
Would it have been less sad if they had been singing something else?

They chose not to wear blindfolds.
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Old 29.04.2015, 11:49
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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Do you really think they'd have been 'rehabilitated' if they hadn't been caught and facing the death penalty?
Well, we'll never know, right? They are dead now. They took high risks and paid the ultimate price. This doesn't mean that what Indonesia has done is right.

I wonder if all the posters in this thread would accept the existence of the death penalty so stoically if it was one of their beloved facing the gun barrels.

Yes, drugs are bad, mmmkay? Does drug smuggling merit the ending of a human life? I don't know. Because I don't know, I must implicitly conclude that it can't have such merit, because I can't in good conscience support killing people without absolute and total certainty that they were a) guilty and b) have caused enough suffering and their death will be enough of a deterrent.

Remember, there is no rehabilitation from death. This decision is final and even if later evidence emerges that the punishment was in vain (or even unjust - e.g. in case the guilty verdict turns out to be false) we can't give these people their life back.

People are all too eager to deal death and judgement when it is conveniently far to be handwaved away as mere statistic.

I would've expected different from people here.
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Old 29.04.2015, 11:56
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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I would've expected different from people here.
Yes, maybe it is sad but China executes around 3,000 people every year yet and I don't see people throwing up their hands in horror over that or boycotting Chinese-made goods such as smart phones.

So, on the grand scale of things, I can't get worked up about a couple of drug dealers who are were part of chain of which spread misery to so many Australian families.
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Old 29.04.2015, 11:57
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

they KNEW the risk, end of story

They broke the laws of that land, and the punishment for there crime is well publicised, there was only ever going to be one outcome if they where caught.

Personal feelings don't come into it, as I understand the case there was no doubts at all they where guilty, they where caught red handed.

If one of my family where caught smuggling drugs in/out of Bali how would I feel?? no idea, its not likely to happen, if it did I would think they where mind numblingly stupid.

What other choice did bali have? the law is there, the punishment has been laid down in law, do this, that happens. If they change the rule just because the law breakers hold aussie passports then what do you think will happen next?
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Old 29.04.2015, 12:03
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

Is taking of life as punishment a "civilised" thing to do? No
Does the death penalty act as a servere enough deterrent? Based on the number of people on "death row" around the world the answer would be no.
Does a life-term prison sentence act as a servere enough deterrent? Based on the number of people in prison the answer would be no.

People will continue to do things that are illegal, they will be caught, they will be convicted and will be sentenced. Where in the criminal justice system do you draw the line between punishment and rehabilitation?

We all have to operate within a system and make judgement calls in what we do and whether the benefits of stepping outside the rules outweigh the risk/cost of being caught. In this case those convicted clearly felt the benefits outweighed the risk, and possibly even believed their own government would step in and request they serve their sentence back in Australia, should they be caught. It was a decision that went wrong.

What is more worthy of debate: "death penalty for drug smuggling in Bali including foreign nationals" or "penalty for and attitude to rape in India"
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Old 29.04.2015, 12:05
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

The Chinese are the ones with money - you don't want to upset them!

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Yes, maybe it is sad but China executes around 3,000 people every year yet and I don't see people throwing up their hands in horror over that or boycotting Chinese-made goods such as smart phones.

So, on the grand scale of things, I can't get worked up about a couple of drug dealers who are were part of chain of which spread misery to so many Australian families.
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Old 29.04.2015, 12:06
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

Humans killing humans in the name of justice.

Define justice and equality and you'll get a different answer from everyone.

There's never a reason for state execution in my opinion. We no longer live in feudal times. There's always alternatives. But if you don't think you can offer a solution then it might be easier to lose the problem and state sponsored death is your ultimate cover up of a failed penal system.

Sure the Bali Nine may well be guilty of the charges, but in Europe they'd have been out within a few years. But as Indonesia isn't able to afford expensive western built toys, we'll read more about these executions than if the Chinese or Saudis kill a few inmates as they're great customers to our state sponsored industries.
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Old 29.04.2015, 12:09
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

I am not in favor with death penalty either... maybe some will say "law is law" but "murder is still a murder" ...it goes with the saying "correcting mistake with another mistake" or "an eye for an eye... the world will totally blind"

I hope that the case of Mary Jane Veloso will soon reprimaned totally. She is just a simple mother of 2 boys who just want to make a living as a domestic helper far from her homeland. This mother don't have much wealth,if only the Indonesian government will make a lifestyle check, as compared with real drug dealers. Basic logic is missing here .. simple arithmetic
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Old 29.04.2015, 12:10
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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Sure the Bali Nine may well be guilty of the charges, but in Europe they'd have been out within a few years.
FYI: UK - Class A smuggling - max. term is life imprisonment.
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Old 29.04.2015, 12:11
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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Sure the Bali Nine may well be guilty of the charges, but in Europe they'd have been out within a few years

but the rewards from smuggling in europe would be far less, and more people do it, it was no accident they chose bali, the rewards where greater for a reason.
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Old 29.04.2015, 12:16
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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FYI: UK - Class A smuggling - max. term is life imprisonment.

which means 10(ish) years, so out in 5. Google Vic Lee caught once smuggling large amount of class a, got 12 years, out in 6 only to be caught again, another 12 years, out in 6
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Old 29.04.2015, 12:20
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Re: Bali Nine duo - not looking good

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they KNEW the risk, end of story

They broke the laws of that land, and the punishment for there crime is well publicised, there was only ever going to be one outcome if they where caught.

Personal feelings don't come into it, as I understand the case there was no doubts at all they where guilty, they where caught red handed.

If one of my family where caught smuggling drugs in/out of Bali how would I feel?? no idea, its not likely to happen, if it did I would think they where mind numblingly stupid.

What other choice did bali have? the law is there, the punishment has been laid down in law, do this, that happens. If they change the rule just because the law breakers hold aussie passports then what do you think will happen next?
its missing the point. the point is are they a danger to society, or likely to carry this on now ? its why we have parole and early release in the UK for example. because people change, and the original sentence may not apply.

And I agree with the other point. everyone here high horsing it "string the bastards up, they knew the risk". If it was your son, daughter, mother or father you'd be selling your house and possessions to try every possible legal or illegal means to get them out of the death penalty.

You'd visit your wife in prison on her last day and say "I did say in sickness and in health but lets be honest love, you knew the risks so you've only yourself to blame" ?
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