Isn’t he also dead? I’m pretty sure I read the father was a Dutch national who converted to Islam. Guess he died as a Dutch national, if he is dead.

Apparently he was captured by the Syrian forces when he and the girl were fleeing. She went to a refugee camp, he's currently a prisoner.

Seems this is the Guantanamo situation all over.
AfaIk still not solved either.

Falklands? Iceland? Saint Helena? Svalbard?

Tom

There is a key difference: The people in question this time are confirmed IS members. Usually caught in action by their enemies. Supporting a terror organization is a crime by itself, but for most will there be more on the list...

The Guantánamo folks were religious dudes who hang around the wrong mosque at the wrong time. Jailed without charges for a decade, tortured and then airdropped into some random central Asian countries living under some form of house arrest for the rest of their lives. Many might have been Taleban, but that does not warrant in any way the treatment they received. The IS fighters in YPG jails? They should be happy that they got out alive…

Yeah, right.

Examples please.

Thats not how a legal system works. You are not guilty till proven guilt. In case of Guantanamo: nearly 800 prisoners over the years, 8 were sentenced for crimes. 1%. The youngest prisoner was 13, an age where you cannot be locked up anywhere in the civilized world. Just one out of 21 children. One of them killed himself after five years in prison without charge.
The oldest was 89 and I have a hard time to believe that he really was an active and dangerous "enemy combatant".
5% of the inmates are fighters arrested by the US military, 86% were people handed over to the US forces by Afghan and Pakistani community for bounty offers… the Americans paid millions for alleged terrorists who could not be trialled or proven any sort of guilt.

https://www.aclu.org/issues/national...tanamo-numbers


All in all a very different situation from the captured IS fighters.

So - no examples ? not a single person who "hung around the mosque" and was sent to Guantanamo ?
maybe you filed the examples together with the list of democratic communist countries ?

In October 2001 Kurnaz at age 19 traveled from Germany to Pakistan, hoping to study at the Mansura Center (which turned him down); he spent the next two months as a tablighi, a Muslim pilgrim sojourning from mosque to mosque.[9] In December 2001, while Kurnaz was on a bus to the airport to return to Germany, Pakistani police at a checkpoint detained him. After questioning him for a few days, they turned him over to American soldiers.

You can read his report about the torture he got in his book…

American and German intelligence agencies had concluded that Kurnaz was innocent of any involvement in terrorism by early 2002. He was held at Guantanamo under these conditions and brutalized for five more years, until 2007.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murat_Kurnaz

A German-Turkish man hanging going between Radical Mosques (where the Taliban recruit) in Pakistan is certainly not suspicious.

Hardly someone how happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Sure. So lets lock him up for six years and torture him for weeks… honestly: You asked for facts. i gave you the hard measurable fact that 99% of guantanamo inmates were released without trial. The other 1% had a trial that did not deserve the name as it was outsite the US legal system in some secret military courts... So they are innocent men and being kept for years in the worst way possible in some illegal prison. Then you demanded a quality example. I gave you one. But this guy hang around a radical mosque… so he is "suspicious" in your eyes for having the wrong religion. Its all alright then...

There is no way to get sense into you when it comes to Muslims, I know that. But this isnt about Muslims. Its about an illegal prison where the Americans spent a fortune to lock up and torture people who were sold to them based on some terribly simplistic profiling. There are still people locked up now btw. A decade and a half later. And I dont think Trump cares to sort it out the coming years either.

For me is this fundamentally different from the Kurdish fighters who arrest IS members in combat. I find it totally ok to travel to Afghanistan (before there was the invasion and war) if you really want to do so. Travelling to the IS held land and joining them is a different thing.

I didn't say he was guilty of being a terrorist and that he should have been in jail for 6 years. He should have been released much earlier.

He did, however, travel to "Taliban country" to "study" when their actions were already known. Taliban version of Islam is very similar to ISIS's.

As far as I know, almost all Muslims from the west who traveled to ISIS held land did so as ISIS sympathizers and not as innocent observers.

At least my idea of letting them come back to UK territories oversees is accepted by some on this forum. I wonder when will that become an option the UK considers.

Ironically, I think that's the point, and why so many prisoners were held longterm at Guantanamo for what turned out to be nothing. Basically incarcerated on "feelings" and "rumour".

I know. What I meant by Guantanamo situation is how it's handled now or better not handled: Nobody wants to deal with the problem, host or take them back even, so "let's just keep them hanging", ignore there is a situation to solve.

Feel free to share your examples of Muslims going to ISIS-land as innocent observers.

How come you get away with "As far as I know..." airy-fairy wisdom and the rest of us have to march around getting you examples?

Because every person who went so far to ISIS and was mentioned in the press went as a volunteer.

If you have examples to contradict that - please share with us.

If you have examples to support that - please share with us.

Not sure why you're asking me for such examples anyway, my post was about Guantanamo and the more than dodgy reasons for people being held there.

Logic seems to confuse you. The prime example is Ms. Begum, of whom we have been talking for a while.

Do try to keep up.