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  #41  
Old 26.02.2015, 17:49
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

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soooo many questions

like how the hell did 3 underage girls manage to buy plane tickets?? how did the airline not realise they where traveling alone?? where did they get the money / debit / credit card from to buy the tickets (does anyone accept cash to buy tickets now??)

these apparent "a-grade" students have decided to go to a figgin war zone and join a group who are well known for beheadings, rape, tourture, there hate of the west (and looking at those pics of how the girls are dressed they are going to be in for a rough time), seriously?? parents had no idea, school had no idea?? (after another pupil had already done it)

I don't buy this story
I trust there are plenty of grownups who'll gladly fill the blanks. Ask your local Imam for example.
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  #42  
Old 26.02.2015, 18:32
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

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As a Muslim woman I feel it is ideological. They are looking for a common identity, goal and are willing to die for that. There is a lot of conflict if you are born and raised in west. The values which are taught to us in our households are much different than what we see outside and it sort of creates a vacuum. Some of the women leaving are quite intelligent and were getting straight A's. They look at 'superficial' culture and apparently want to reject it for sharia and more 'Muslim' way of living.
Also, there is a general feeling of injustice for Muslims e.g. in Palestine, invasion of Iraq etc. In Asian community people tend to mingle with each other generally and love to talk about politics and what is happening to Muslims in other regions etc. This creates a sympathy for a cause.
I believe Mosques and elderly from communities and parents need to understand the trap ISIL is laying for these young people and how they are brainwashing them and trying to fill that vacuum.
Oh good one, however why is it then that it seems to be the secondos, or the third, fourth and now even fifth generation young moslems that get drawn to Jihad, for the moslems of my generation "Jihad" is something the Lone Ranger shouted to Tonto. I simply can't believe that they say "screw this wicked western way of living" and go all medieval out of their own mind unless geared up by the teachings backed by wahabi imam's in the madras or mosques of London, Paris, or Brussels.
Also the way you describe the attraction to Jihad in your post suggests that today's Islam is incompatible to the western way of life, it wasn't always like that, the younger moslems seem to forget, or better said refuse to see, the lesson from history, look at pictures taken in any moslem country before 1979, you see people having fun in Bagdad, drinking and dancing in Tehran, people singing in Ryad, not a Hijab in sight, then in the pivotal year of 1979 things kicked off, the Shah was kicked out by the Ayatollah (gift from god) Khomeini, the dead eyed Zombie Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq rose to power in Pakistan and above all the backlash from the Grand Mosque seizure and the rise of Wahhabism in Saudi.
Perhaps the imam's should teach history instead of the Koran.
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  #43  
Old 26.02.2015, 19:29
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

according to wiki, there are 2.7m Muslims in the UK, the vast majority of which are Sunni.

I have read that there are 500 British Jihadis fighting for ISIS, for sake of argument let's say there are 10 times as many = 5000, that's still 0.1852% of the total UK Muslim population, a tiny amount. Probably the same percentage of murderers / violent criminals and thugs of the total UK population
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  #44  
Old 26.02.2015, 19:46
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

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according to wiki, there are 2.7m Muslims in the UK, the vast majority of which are Sunni.

I have read that there are 500 British Jihadis fighting for ISIS, for sake of argument let's say there are 10 times as many = 5000, that's still 0.1852% of the total UK Muslim population, a tiny amount. Probably the same percentage of murderers / violent criminals and thugs of the total UK population
I think the main difference being that Jihadis and regular muslims are still unified in some ways through their religion, whereas the average non-muslim citizen does not identify in any way with a violent criminal or thug (providing they aren't one themselves).
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  #45  
Old 26.02.2015, 19:50
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

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I think the main difference being that Jihadis and regular muslims are still unified in some ways through their religion, whereas the average non-muslim citizen does not identify in any way with a violent criminal or thug (providing they aren't one themselves).
thanks sure, of course I wasn't clear at all. I was just putting forward my (totally unproven) theory that the young Jihadis going out to join ISIS may be religious but they also have some weird bloodlust.
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  #46  
Old 26.02.2015, 19:58
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

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thanks sure, of course I wasn't clear at all. I was just putting forward my (totally unproven) theory that the young Jihadis going out to join ISIS may be religious but they also have some weird bloodlust.
I think it's the natural beast within all of us, unleashed and fuelled by religious idealogy.
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  #47  
Old 26.02.2015, 21:08
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

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I believe Mosques and elderly from communities and parents need to understand the trap ISIL is laying for these young people and how they are brainwashing them and trying to fill that vacuum.
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thanks sure, of course I wasn't clear at all. I was just putting forward my (totally unproven) theory that the young Jihadis going out to join ISIS may be religious but they also have some weird bloodlust.

After all the indoctrination of their superiority to the kuffār, you don't need blood lust to motivate this kind of action. The mosques and the elders of their communities have done all the groundwork for ISIS. The've already ingrained a sense of alienation and differentiation from the kuffār in the West. It was already in their heads. The physical travel to join ISIS was just the culmination and the fulfilment of what they received from their upbringing.

Poor girls, they must have had a horrible time living their lives in a kuffār society. Must have been some sense of alienation and guilt. This isn't the fault of the kuffār. Just the other day, I was having a meal with a gay man, an atheist, a Frenchman and a man who worships an elephant god. None of our differences was ever cause for any issues. Why make it one?
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  #48  
Old 26.02.2015, 21:10
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

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Perhaps Community service in a gay retirement home.
There are gay retirement homes? Fantastic!
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  #49  
Old 26.02.2015, 21:13
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

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There are gay retirement homes? Fantastic!

Unfortunately for you, women tend to live longer than men:

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Old 27.02.2015, 15:18
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

In Pakistan in 80's the text books were changed or updated glorifying Jihad. The Muslims fighting the soviet Union were Mujahideen. Only the Jihad bin Qatal was taught and madrassas were the recruitment centers for this Jihaad. The whole mind set was shifted.
The trigger for this mind set came somewhere in 80s and 90s. Muslims were living peacefully with other communities before. We have to look at the trigger and reasons instead of bashing Muslims. It has to start at community level. As a Muslim it is my duty to protect others no matter what religion, faith or race. Same is true for me.
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Old 27.02.2015, 15:23
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

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The trigger for this mind set came somewhere in 80s and 90s. Muslims were living peacefully with other communities before. We have to look at the trigger and reasons instead of bashing Muslims. It has to start at community level. As a Muslim it is my duty to protect others no matter what religion, faith or race. Same is true for me.
Honest question here.

What was the trigger for the change and why did people accept it so easily?
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  #52  
Old 27.02.2015, 15:28
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

The IRA laid down there arms, the cold war ended, the west had no enemies to control the population, Muslims filled that void nicely.
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  #53  
Old 27.02.2015, 15:30
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

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The IRA laid down there arms, the cold war ended, the west had no enemies to control the population, Muslims filled that void nicely.
But the cold war's starting again, too. Perhaps the IRA ought to start up again and the British could invade France.
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  #54  
Old 27.02.2015, 15:36
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

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The IRA laid down there arms, the cold war ended, the west had no enemies to control the population, Muslims filled that void nicely.
So Mulsims voluntarily accepted a more backward form of their religion because thousands of miles away some old enemies decided to bury their differences?

This is a bit like saying the Westboro Baptist Church developed its crazy beliefs as a result of the Entente Cordiale.

Being identified as an enemy is one thing, but actually acting the part is another.

It doesn't make sense to me.
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Old 27.02.2015, 15:49
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

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Honest question here.

What was the trigger for the change and why did people accept it so easily?
does this mean you're trolling most of the time?
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Old 27.02.2015, 15:57
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

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So Mulsims voluntarily accepted a more backward form of their religion because thousands of miles away some old enemies decided to bury their differences?

This is a bit like saying the Westboro Baptist Church developed its crazy beliefs as a result of the Entente Cordiale.

Being identified as an enemy is one thing, but actually acting the part is another.

It doesn't make sense to me.
well its not exactly hard to piss off a very vocal minority of them, just piss on a book or draw a stupid cartoon and they go mental
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Old 27.02.2015, 16:42
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

if you ingrain love for all, hatred for none and teach your community to show restrain and peace and alternate/ better ways for discussion it would become better. In my community our leader preaches this msg of peace and love for the country where you live. We do reject Jihad in its present form. It has to come from within the community. I do feel my religion is hijacked. This is not true Islam that I believe in.
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Old 27.02.2015, 16:52
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

Why all the stretch to look for a reason and cause that originated from the west, when the problem and most of all, the solution is solely on that side? Oh, because it couldn't possibly be their fault, no?

Bernard Lewis identified and called it out in 1990 in his article "The Roots of Muslim Rage", and his book "What went wrong", way before the topic was in vogue.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...m-rage/304643/

With Asia; China, South Korea, etc. on the ascendency, there is deep rooted sense of something gone totally wrong. How could the glorious caliphate of the past millenium fall into such dilapidation, and be left behind? Well it couldn't be Muslims in their practice of Islam, because that is beyond reproach. So it must be the West, with its Christianity, and USA, the great Satan. Meanwhile... back on the farm.... the solution is not to work harder, just wage Jihad. It's an easier concept.
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Old 27.02.2015, 18:01
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

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We must care.

If we accept that our society can't care for our children, then many more will see this as a viable alternative and follow suit.

We need to consider what is making them think that this way of life may be a better one and address those issues
Really? If I was in the UK government now, I'd hire a plane and offer everyone who was interested a one-way ticket to the region, male or female, young or old. "We'll pay for you to go first class even, help yourself to the wine, the nuts etc make yourself comfortable during the journey. But make no mistake, once you arrive and leave the plane, you're fair game to whatever comes your way. Oh, and hand in your passport at the departure gate!".

I would suggest I'm a reasonable kind of guy, liberal and open with my views of the world. I firmly believe in "live and let live". Sometimes, people must learn to experience things for themselves to be able to look back at it, reflect and take what they can from it. These girls "appear" to be well enough educated to know better. They are certainly old enough to know better.

It's sad for the families left behind, but in my opinion the more we all try to "understand what makes them tick", the more of a stigma it creates. I don't care if it's the "Join in with the crowd" mentality, or such deep rooted hatred of who they feel is the enemy that drives them into these groups, the thrill/excitement/dare I say attractive glamour, or that they are just plain barbaric people. I don't know them, I'm sure they have their own rationale in their minds, but I would not spend time and money investigating it.

For me it's simple, you wanna go, then pack your bags and 'koff! Breeding and manifesting that kind of mentality is not welcome in a modern society in either western or eastern region or in any religious denomination. Why can't we just spend more time and money on those people who generate positivity and happily integrate with everyone instead of wasting time and energy on the others?
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Old 27.02.2015, 19:49
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Re: More girls running off to join ISIS

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Really? If I was in the UK government now, I'd hire a plane and offer everyone who was interested a one-way ticket to the region, male or female, young or old. "We'll pay for you to go first class even, help yourself to the wine, the nuts etc make yourself comfortable during the journey. But make no mistake, once you arrive and leave the plane, you're fair game to whatever comes your way. Oh, and hand in your passport at the departure gate!".

I would suggest I'm a reasonable kind of guy, liberal and open with my views of the world. I firmly believe in "live and let live". Sometimes, people must learn to experience things for themselves to be able to look back at it, reflect and take what they can from it. These girls "appear" to be well enough educated to know better. They are certainly old enough to know better.

It's sad for the families left behind, but in my opinion the more we all try to "understand what makes them tick", the more of a stigma it creates. I don't care if it's the "Join in with the crowd" mentality, or such deep rooted hatred of who they feel is the enemy that drives them into these groups, the thrill/excitement/dare I say attractive glamour, or that they are just plain barbaric people. I don't know them, I'm sure they have their own rationale in their minds, but I would not spend time and money investigating it.

For me it's simple, you wanna go, then pack your bags and 'koff! Breeding and manifesting that kind of mentality is not welcome in a modern society in either western or eastern region or in any religious denomination. Why can't we just spend more time and money on those people who generate positivity and happily integrate with everyone instead of wasting time and energy on the others?
Agree with that.
Post me the link and I'll contribute for the airfares.
Better to have a psychotic roaming the deserts of Syria or Iraq than festering in a public area in the civilized world (and that includes the Muslim world).
Having lived/worked (many decades ago) in Amman/Damascus/Ankara/Tunis and was generally received in a most courteous manner I think we need to reach out and get the general Muslim congregation to engage in dialogue.
Sure, Islam regards itself as the ONLY true religion but the consequences will be catastrophic if they don't POSITIVELY reject the aggressive attitude preached by thousands of imams all across the Muslim world.
Try taking a Bible or Torah through the immigration in Saudi Arabia.
Most in the Islamic are reasonable and tolerant.
But a small, highly vociferous and violent, minority are hell bent on leading to Amageddon.
If the Muslim world insists on ALL or NOTHING....they will eventually inherit NOTHING

GW Bush and TB liar did nothing to build bridges with the effort to remove non-existent wmd and should have stood shoulder-to-shoulder with Sadddam on the gallows. War criminals all!
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