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  #261  
Old 27.03.2015, 16:56
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

pretty sure there are no bodies laying anywhere in that mess
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  #262  
Old 27.03.2015, 17:00
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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Let it be. A tragedy that may or not have been preventable with some kind words or gestures at the right time in the guy's life.

Don't hate him. It could have been anyone who has depression. We all have it within us, some cope, some don't. Of course there were 149 others who followed the same path unwillingly. That is a both a crime and an outrage, but shouting at a dead man won't change a thing now.

When your friends or family members make the effort to talk to you about their dark thoughts or their fears, don't judge. Listen and choose your words carefully when responding. Kindness and compassion won't hurt any of us. Giving a little more from your heart might stop the next person from taking leave of their senses and taking the ultimate final trip.
Don't hate him

There Is No Forgiveness Without Repentance In The Bible
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  #263  
Old 27.03.2015, 17:00
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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Err. Yes. What would you call that?
Err, best described in laymen's terms as 'turning the knob'.
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  #264  
Old 27.03.2015, 17:07
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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Don't hate him

There Is No Forgiveness Without Repentance In The Bible

it also say tho shalt not kill and suicide is a sin and leads to eternal damnation
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  #265  
Old 27.03.2015, 17:45
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

MIND have issued this statement today. It would be helpful if people would take note of this before jumping to conclusions or making rash statements. It has been a terrible situation for all.

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The terrible loss of life in the Germanwings plane crash is tragic, and we send our deepest sympathies to the families. Whilst the full facts are still emerging, there has been widespread media reporting speculating about the link with the pilot’s history of depression, which has been overly simplistic.

Clearly assessment of all pilots’ physical and mental health is entirely appropriate - but assumptions about risk shouldn't be made across the board for people with depression, or any other illness. There will be pilots with experience of depression who have flown safely for decades, and assessments should be made on a case by case basis.

Today’s headlines risk adding to the stigma surrounding mental health problems, which millions of people experience each year, and we would encourage the media to report this issue responsibly.

Sue Baker, Director, Time to Change
Paul Farmer, Chief Executive, Mind
Mark Winstanley, Chief Executive, Rethink Mental Illness
http://www.mind.org.uk/news-campaign.../#.VRV6pvysVu2
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  #266  
Old 27.03.2015, 18:01
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

Someone should ask Sue Baker, Paul Farmer and Mark Winstanley if they'd be happy to have a mentalist piloting their plane the next time they board a flight to Tenerife. A simple yes or no would do.
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  #267  
Old 27.03.2015, 18:21
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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In that same vein, nobody is ever 'cured' of depression, like nobody is ever 'cured' of alcoholism, and it can come back at any time. Therefore, in the interest of the public, I have to say they shouldn't be in charge of 100 tonnes (?) of metal, housing hundreds of people, capable of going at the speed of sound into anything he chooses. I am all for relieving him of flight duties, letting him train other pilots, desk job, etc etc, but the fact that he has passed pilot exams does NOT give him a right to work in any job he chooses, in the same way someone who passes medical exams, but has a history of stealing meds out of the cabinet does NOT have a right to work in a hospital with unfettered access to said meds.

Have to disagree slightly. The facts of mental illness means you aren't thinking about other people, and you certainly aren't thinking in a lucid fashion. If he'd jumped off a cliff to kill himself we'd all show him sympathy, it's just he presumably figured his easiest way out was what he did. It is awful for everyone else, but let's not make him out to be evil here, just incredibly unfortunate and unfair for everyone else on the plane this is the choice he made.
In some individuals, mild to moderate depression is acute, not chronic and if treated properly it is cured. But of course the diagnosis and treatment follows you forever. Moreover there is a big difference between depression and suicidal intent. At any rate, painting all "mental illness" with the same broad brush fails to consider the great variation and lack of diagnostic clarity.

Your facts of mental illness - the lack of thought about others and lack of clarity are simply wrong for some conditions, especially moderate depression. And lack of compassion is just as often an individual characteristic rather than a consequence of a mental illness. This is why organizations like MIND are appealing to people to slow down and be careful of stigmatization.

However, rules for pilots are very stringent. Apparently if you have type 1 or 2 diabetes (even non insulin dependent), you can't pilot commercially in most cases.

Is it clear this was a psychiatric and not physical diagnosis?

At any rate, it's very sad that this guy had to take out himself and everyone else, if indeed that was the case here. Perhaps airlines can better monitor their employees, but it's not much compensation for the families, etc of those involved. It makes me angry that such a thing can happen, and i hope this will lead to better personnel screening and more compassionate treatment of impaired employees, plus safeguards on the plane. The truth is though, that shit happens.....and it's tragic.
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Old 27.03.2015, 18:48
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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Let it be. A tragedy that may or not have been preventable with some kind words or gestures at the right time in the guy's life.

Don't hate him. It could have been anyone who has depression. We all have it within us, some cope, some don't. Of course there were 149 others who followed the same path unwillingly. That is a both a crime and an outrage, but shouting at a dead man won't change a thing now.

When your friends or family members make the effort to talk to you about their dark thoughts or their fears, don't judge. Listen and choose your words carefully when responding. Kindness and compassion won't hurt any of us. Giving a little more from your heart might stop the next person from taking leave of their senses and taking the ultimate final trip.

Well-said, Assassin.


It's these kind of tragedies that should pull us together and not split us apart. There are many sufferers of depression amongst us and, unless you've been pulled down the throbbing, polarizing dark tunnel into the evil black pit of self-condemning thoughts, it's almost incomprehensible to understand this man's actions. This is a time of sympathy, grief and slow recovery. Consoling the inconsolable. Showing love to those who need it most. Being grateful for all those around you.


Sending a hug to all those who need it right now. Feel the love and the positive energy from others and from within yourself.
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  #269  
Old 27.03.2015, 19:13
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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Don't hate him. It could have been anyone who has depression.
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There will be pilots with experience of depression who have flown safely for decades, and assessments should be made on a case by case basis.
There are mixed messages here.

Was he somebody with depression that killed 150 people, and we mustn't judge him because anyone with depression could do the same?

Or was he an unusual case and people with depression don't normally kill other people.

I'm going with MIND. He might have had depression. He might have been ill. But it takes a particularly evil person to do what he did.
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  #270  
Old 27.03.2015, 19:18
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

They have found an unfit for work certificate, including for the day of the crash.

No news yet on whether that was for physical or psychological reasons. The airline never received the note, which covered several days.

Last edited by Hoppy; 27.03.2015 at 19:24. Reason: Addition
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  #271  
Old 27.03.2015, 19:18
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

The guy had depression.

Depression doesn't make you a murderer.

He was a murderer.
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  #272  
Old 27.03.2015, 19:48
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

He was mentally ill and a murderer, but I wonder if we will ever find out if he intended to do this or just totally disconnected from reality when he shut the door. I don't know where to go on this at present. If I say that he was not guilty by reason of insanity, can terrorists claim that they suffered insanity by being brainwashed into committing atrocities?

I know that many civil liberties will not agree with my opinion on cameras and increased intrusion in personal privacy, but I think that it could have helped in this case. The problem is that it has to be coupled with understanding and resources.

Sometimes I like the fact that Switzerland has nosy neighbors who report to the police, I see it as a part of a concerned and caring community; as long as they do it to help inclusion and healing and not to blame and ostracize.
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  #273  
Old 27.03.2015, 19:49
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

From this article:
"Yesterday's revelations...point to the mindset of the kind of person who goes on a calculated killing spree on a school or army base and then kills themselves (according to leading psychologist Professor Craig Jackson)."

"He reportedly received a year and half of psychiatric treatment and was at one point recommended to be examined by a doctor before flying."

"police are now investigating whether Lubitz had stopped taking any medication he was on and have questioned chemists at the Apotheke"

"Lubitz regularly collected a prescription from the pharmacy"

"documents found indicated 'an existing illness and appropriate medical treatment'"
All of which prompts me to wonder whether the medication connection will ever be reported in the media. Most, if not all, killing spree perps in the US have been connected to pharma industry products that they were taking or had recently stopped taking.

It wasn't all that long ago that the psychiatry trade and big pharma asserted that "depression" was chemically treatable, and ever since, big pharma has been introducing a steady parade of new products, which psychiatrists prescribe before adequate long-term testing (including withdrawal testing) has been possible. This has been conspicuously followed by a marked increase in murder-suicides and spree-killings, particularly over the last decade or more.

Mainstream news reports seldom name the medications involved (or that a medication was involved at all), but inquiring minds often probe and uncover just such a "medical" connection, usually involving a relatively new drug.

Who knows how much big pharma does (or spends) to keep such details out of the news, but I think the public ought to be concerned (if not outraged) that sad people are being used as big pharma guinea pigs at the expense of so many innocent victims — including the sad people themselves, who (like the rest of the public) would likely be oblivious to the notion that their thoughts and motivations could be chemically affected.

None of this is meant to diminish the horror and tragedy of this present event, but while governments, the media, the psychiatry trade and big pharma remain conspicuously silent on this question, IMHO it deserves better than being swept under the rug.
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  #274  
Old 27.03.2015, 20:44
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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Someone should ask Sue Baker, Paul Farmer and Mark Winstanley if they'd be happy to have a mentalist piloting their plane the next time they board a flight to Tenerife. A simple yes or no would do.

Go ahead and let as know, please
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  #275  
Old 27.03.2015, 20:52
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

For all of you going on about mental illness, please note that it doesn't seem to be the case here.

"In a statement (in German), prosecutors said they had seized medical documents from Mr Lubitz's two residences - his Duesseldorf flat and his parents' home north of Frankfurt - which indicated an "existing illness and appropriate medical treatment".
The "fact that, among the documents found, there were sick notes - torn-up, current and for the day of the crash - leads to the provisional assessment that the deceased was hiding his illness from his employer", the report states.
Germanwings confirmed it had not been given a sick note for the day of the crash.
Duesseldorf's University Hospital issued a statement (in German) saying Mr Lubitz had attended the hospital on 10 March and last month.
Adding that it had handed his medical records over to prosecutors, it said reports the co-pilot had been treated there for depression were incorrect.
Germany's Rheinischer Post newspaper, which spoke to the hospital, quoted its own unnamed sources as saying Mr Lubitz had been suffering from a physical, rather than a mental, illness."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32087203

It could be something as simple as he's been having treatment for a terminal illness which hasn't worked and he simply decided to end it all. Not everyone leaves a suicide note when they decide to leave this world. Though why he saw the need to take another 149 people with him is beyond me.
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  #276  
Old 27.03.2015, 20:56
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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Someone should ask Sue Baker, Paul Farmer and Mark Winstanley if they'd be happy to have a mentalist piloting their plane the next time they board a flight to Tenerife. A simple yes or no would do.

Go ahead and let as know, please
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  #277  
Old 27.03.2015, 21:10
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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The guy had depression.

Depression doesn't make you a murderer.

He was a murderer.
Women with post-natal depression have been known to murder their children and then commit suicide.

Are they murderers or sufferers of depression?

This is in answer to the second of your three sentences.
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  #278  
Old 27.03.2015, 21:21
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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Women with post-natal depression have been known to murder their children and then commit suicide.

Are they murderers or sufferers of depression?

This is in answer to the second of your three sentences.
This happened in my sleepy little village a few years ago. No one called the mother a murderer.

The co pilots case is too difficult to categorize because of all the unknown factors including, most importantly, the question of his frame of mind at that moment. The copilot did not know any of the passengers but he did know the crew. By locking himself in the cockpit, he placed himself away from reality, ignored all noises and let his suicidal thoughts take over.
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  #279  
Old 27.03.2015, 21:29
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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It could be something as simple as he's been having treatment for a terminal illness which hasn't worked..
Not simple at all.

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..and he simply decided to end it all.
Not simply.

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Not everyone leaves a suicide note when they decide to leave this world. Though why he saw the need to take another 149 people with him is beyond me.
It's beyond us, because it is far from whatever explanation or assumption simply offers itself.

I know how you meant it. Life is far from simple.

I feel awful for the victims' nearest ones and the guy's family.
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  #280  
Old 27.03.2015, 21:35
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

Best start spending those Miles & More miles.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...ited-liability
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