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  #401  
Old 30.03.2015, 13:28
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

All the personal information on any young man or woman, and their entire family- is being 'laid bare' if they decide to travel to Syria- even though they have not committed any crime at all or been responsible for any death/s- only of suspicion of future possible involvement in any crime/terrorism.

Are you really telling me that if the guy was an Arab Muslim, his personal information would not be treated differently (or if he was a European convert to islam)- come on!
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  #402  
Old 30.03.2015, 13:34
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

I really don't see what point you're tying to make odile, I don't remember ANY serious crime in recent history when we have been told so much about the suspect so quickly, FFS we even know his medical history, which is supposed to be totally confidential, So can't quite understand why the race card is being played.
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Old 30.03.2015, 13:38
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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All the personal information on any young man or woman, and their entire family- is being 'laid bare' if they decide to travel to Syria- even though they have not committed any crime at all or been responsible for any death/s- only of suspicion of future possible involvement in any crime.

Are you really telling me that if the guy was an Arab Muslim, his personal information would not be treated differently (or if he was a European convert to islam)- come on!
Ok, let's go over this one step at a time:

1) It was a crazy German pilot who crashed his plane
2) This has nothing to do with Islamic terrorists
3) His entire background, past and family history is being "laid bare". Not because he's white, but because he just killed 149 people
4) The same would have happened if a Chinese, Indian, Malay (remember flight MH 370) Cockney, or Eritrean were flying that plane
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Old 30.03.2015, 13:41
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

Why would I 'play the race card'. I have no card to play. But seeing all the info given about all the young people who have recently travelled to Syria- even though they have not been involved in any crime/terrorism, made me think. Why is all their information and that of their family, 'laid bare' and nobody questions that?

My initial question was about his medical history- we know he suffered from depression, and we know he had another medical condition. My question was why allow speculation re this medical condition- as it is fuelling the media frenzy. Or has his medical condition been divulged?
It was just a question asking why.

Loz - agreed. My comment was re the fact some here think his info should not 'be laid bare' as his privacy is paramount. If he had been a crazy Muslim Pilot- would he have been treated as a crazy person, or 'automatically' become a 'terrorist'. I am sure you understand what I mean, even if I express myself badly.
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Old 30.03.2015, 13:43
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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Old 30.03.2015, 14:16
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

Saddam Hussein also suffered from depression, but I don't remember him getting so much sympathy
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Old 30.03.2015, 15:00
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

If he was simply depressed then he would have quietly taken his life in a Barcelona hotel room or up in his glider, however everything seems to point to him having a narcissistic personality disorder. Amongst other things this is characterised by an extreme lack of empathy (for his passengers), feelings of grandiosity (telling his GF about wanting notoriety and wishing to 'change' the system). This all seems to be behaviour consistent with High School/Mall shooters who end by turning their guns on themselves.

So again I think depression is far too simplistic and unfairly stigmatises the disorder and those in the flying profession who successfully manage it.

Last edited by Castro; 30.03.2015 at 15:10.
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Old 30.03.2015, 15:24
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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[..]My question was why allow speculation re this medical condition- as it is fuelling the media frenzy. [..]
It's exactly this drip-feeding/digging-up speculation grows on. All these rumors, facets that may be true or not merely increase the hype - and sell, obviously. I'm surprised you don't see the rather obvious contradiction as it works the same as any tv series where every episode may answer a few bits but simultaneously raises tons of new questions that beg investigating and, for lack of true answers, speculating.

You say you feel affected and yet you keep following the news when, it seems from what you write, it would do you much more good to simply ignore the whole story as you can and thereby stop feeding your fears for the loved ones.

Nobody says muslims have less rights (at least no me). You are indeed trying to play the discrimination card with your unfounded insinuations.
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Old 30.03.2015, 15:26
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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If he was simply depressed then he would have quietly taken his life in a Barcelona hotel room or up in his glider, however everything seems to point to him having a narcissistic personality disorder. Amongst other things this is characterised by an extreme lack of empathy (for his passengers), feelings of grandiosity (telling his GF about wanting notoriety and wishing to 'change' the system). This all seems to be behaviour consistent with High School/Mall shooters who end by turning their guns on themselves.

So again I think depression is far too simplistic and unfairly stigmatises the disorder and those in the flying profession who successfully manage it.
I don't think there's been any one newspaper article that has tried to stigmatise the condition. The fact remains that this guy, who happened to be depressed, flew a plane full of passengers into a mountain. It's important this information is reported.

What's crucial is that lessons are learned in order that everything possible is done to prevent something like this happening again (although this probably isn't possible). If that means preventing people who aren't of sound mind from flying, then so be it. What shouldn't happen is that people are prevented from discussing what happened because the subject of mental illness is taboo or may cause offence. 149 people were murdered remember.
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Old 30.03.2015, 15:41
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

But most depressed individuals do have a sound mind and if you research the clinical manifestation of depression, taking other people's lives is NOT clinically associated as a sign of ( or even with) depression.
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Old 30.03.2015, 15:44
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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I don't think there's been any one newspaper article that has tried to stigmatise the condition. The fact remains that this guy, who happened to be depressed, flew a plane full of passengers into a mountain. It's important this information is reported.

What's crucial is that lessons are learned in order that everything possible is done to prevent something like this happening again (although this probably isn't possible). If that means preventing people who aren't of sound mind from flying, then so be it. What shouldn't happen is that people are prevented from discussing what happened because the subject of mental illness is taboo or may cause offence. 149 people were murdered remember.
Actually it's not fact - on the balance of probability it seems likely that he flew the aircraft into a mountain, but as the investigation stands at the moment it's certainly not fact.
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Old 30.03.2015, 15:48
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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So just to recap, the co-pilot had depression, so "big pharma" needs to cover this up by shifting the focus to the budget airline that waters down their gas to save money, and then the airline in turn shifts the focus to racism, since the pilot was white. Ok, go it. I'm so glad to get my news updates via EF

The passenger list includes an Israeli ,now this explains the whole scenario
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Old 30.03.2015, 15:50
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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But most depressed individuals do have a sound mind and if you research the clinical manifestation of depression, taking other people's lives is NOT clinically associated as a sign of ( or even with) depression.
Exactly most depressed individuals are of sound mind. But it only takes one individual piloting a passenger jet to cause a catastrophe. Hence the subject should be discussed and investigated further. I actually don't think Lubitz' depression was the cause of this accident, and something far more complex must have been going on in his head à la Charles Whitman.
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Old 30.03.2015, 15:51
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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The passenger list includes an Israeli ,now this explains the whole scenario
And two Iranian guys who worked for bbc.
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Old 30.03.2015, 15:52
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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And two Iranian guys who worked for bbc.
Clarkson!
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Old 30.03.2015, 15:55
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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What's crucial is that lessons are learned in order that everything possible is done to prevent something like this happening again (although this probably isn't possible). If that means preventing people who aren't of sound mind from flying, then so be it. What shouldn't happen is that people are prevented from discussing what happened because the subject of mental illness is taboo or may cause offence. 149 people were murdered remember.
What's actually crucial is that the world has just seen another event happen that could have occurred at anytime since the Wright Brothers took to the air in 1903 but rarely did happen apart from the odd kamikaze or depressed airliner pilot. If you react the same way as the airline industry did after 9-11, then you're just acting backwards. Re-acting rather than being proactive.

There is no guarantee that anyone willing to give up their life for whatever reason is not going to find the means or method to kill if they're that way inclined. We're all capable of it, but have the ethics and emotional stability to choose life over death. By over-regulating, cross-checking, building more defenses you're by definition inconveniencing the vast majority just to try and filter out a few psychos. How many lives have been saved by installing armored cockpit doors in airliners? How many terrorists were trying to get flammable liquids on board? Do you remember when flying used to be fun and you were treated like a fare paying passenger rather than a potential terrorist threat?

I'd go so far and say I'd take my chances if an airline found a way of opting out of international laws, took down the cockpit door and let passengers take on their hand-carried bags without being subjected to pseudo cavity searches. Why? Because nothing bad is going to happen like it did in the past and I'm willing to take a chance and let it play out. Because 150 dead people merged into granite won't stop me living any more than people smashing into each other on the freeway in hormone fueled death races.
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  #417  
Old 30.03.2015, 15:58
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

While everything seems to point to suicide by the copilot this is far from a foregone conclusion, let alone fact as some here say. From spiegel.de, as recently as yesterday and Saturday:

Investigators keep searching for the 2nd flight recorder. Until it's been found a technical defect can't be ruled out. "At this time the hypothesis of a technical defect can't be ruled out" says Jean-Pierr Michel, chief of the french investigators.

"Die Ermittler suchen weiter nach dem zweiten Flugschreiber. Solange dieser nicht gefunden ist, wollen sie auch die Möglichkeit eines technischen Defekts nicht ausschließen. "Derzeit kann die Hypothese eines technischen Fehlers nicht ausgeschlossen werden", sagte der Chef der in Düsseldorf eingesetzten französischen Ermittler, Jean-Pierre Michel, dem französischen Sender BFMTV."
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Old 30.03.2015, 16:14
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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You're all wrong. Sheeple.

It was magnets.
Pfft, that's what they want you to think. Really this was a high-tech chemtrail plane designed to again reign in the masses to one way of thinking. Or something like that.

Back on-topic, I am disturbed by how the "investigation" has progressed. It's not even been a week yet and it seems at least some authorities consider the investigation done and dusted. I can't help but wonder if today's media hype with the desire to be the first with breaking news is interfering/influencing the process... Also the pressure by interested parties (Airbus, GermanWings, for example) to limit their liability.

Even with the Asiana flight in San Fran it was fairly apparent what happened but authorities were very careful not to draw absolute conclusions until the investigation was complete. They used language like "allegedly" and "we believe" in press conferences - whereas in this investigation it all sounds 100% certain.
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Old 30.03.2015, 16:16
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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What's actually crucial is that the world has just seen another event happen that could have occurred at anytime since the Wright Brothers took to the air in 1903 but rarely did happen apart from the odd kamikaze or depressed airliner pilot. If you react the same way as the airline industry did after 9-11, then you're just acting backwards. Re-acting rather than being proactive.

There is no guarantee that anyone willing to give up their life for whatever reason is not going to find the means or method to kill if they're that way inclined. We're all capable of it, but have the ethics and emotional stability to choose life over death. By over-regulating, cross-checking, building more defenses you're by definition inconveniencing the vast majority just to try and filter out a few psychos. How many lives have been saved by installing armored cockpit doors in airliners? How many terrorists were trying to get flammable liquids on board? Do you remember when flying used to be fun and you were treated like a fare paying passenger rather than a potential terrorist threat?

I'd go so far and say I'd take my chances if an airline found a way of opting out of international laws, took down the cockpit door and let passengers take on their hand-carried bags without being subjected to pseudo cavity searches. Why? Because nothing bad is going to happen like it did in the past and I'm willing to take a chance and let it play out. Because 150 dead people merged into granite won't stop me living any more than people smashing into each other on the freeway in hormone fueled death races.
I think the 'two-in cockpit' rule as already practiced amongst the US carriers is the best, most pragmatic solution for the time being. Its easy to adopt, confidence inspiring for passengers and should deter any future episodes.
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Old 30.03.2015, 16:56
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Re: GermanWings A320 Down Near Digne, French Alps

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I think the 'two-in cockpit' rule as already practiced amongst the US carriers is the best, most pragmatic solution for the time being. Its easy to adopt, confidence inspiring for passengers and should deter any future episodes.
Not really.

As Assassin suggested, you're just kidding yourself with an illusion of safety.

Introducing a third person to the cockpit is increasing your chances of having a potential murder/suicide by 50%.

If a pilot really wants to crash an aircraft, then there's little anybody else in the cockpit (including the other pilot) can do about it. The GermanWings scenario might not have worked exactly as it did, but the guy could have just waited until short finals and ditched it into the ground or a building, or played out any number of other scenarios.
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